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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 21:55:06 GMT
The thought has crossed my mind. It's an interesting concept. Melisandre fails, everyone in the world goes nuts, D&D get to troll the audience, Jon's budy is burned north of the Wall.... And then later Davos goes back to find an empty pyre. It would be very Jesus-like. Moreover, it would mean the exact nature of the resurrection is left up to the imagination. Avoids the awkwardness of Ghost warging or Mel kissing or other theories floating around. It is also worth remembering that in the original outline, GRRM had Catelyn being resurrected by white walkers north of the Wall. So this is probably the same magic that R'hllor uses anyway. Yes it does have a certain epic kind of Jesus-like theme to it, doesn't it? I like it even better as a mystery the way you theorized it. Don't even put it on screen where he goes or how... just that he shows up later and most people have no idea he was even killed. All the witnesses at the wall be like WAT DA FUK?! That's another reason I think that Jon's resurrection won't be until 603 because it will at least establish the feeling (for the casual audience at least) that "HOLY SHIT, Jon might really be gone" If they have Jon coming back from the dead to end 603, it would kind of be a consecutive episode parallel with Dany's ending in 604. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 22:00:46 GMT
Yes it does have a certain epic kind of Jesus-like theme to it, doesn't it? I like it even better as a mystery the way you theorized it. Don't even put it on screen where he goes or how... just that he shows up later and most people have no idea he was even killed. All the witnesses at the wall be like WAT DA FUK?! That's another reason I think that Jon's resurrection won't be until 603 because it will at least establish the feeling (for the casual audience at least) that "HOLY SHIT, Jon might really be gone" If they have Jon coming back from the dead to end 603, it would kind of be a consecutive episode parallel with Dany's ending in 604. I agree with you. When filming first started, I was in the mind frame that it should happen in the very first episode. I badly want it to happen right away. But from a theatric / dramatic perspective, that's not the most impacting way to do it and if I were the show writers I would try to drag it out as long as possible. The cliffhanger wasn't enough. They want to work up the fans and keep people guessing, even those of us who know for certain it's coming. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Davos in that photo is part of a massive trolling teaser from the writers to make people think that's it, the end, he's been burned and gone. |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on Mar 31, 2016 22:04:44 GMT
Yes it does have a certain epic kind of Jesus-like theme to it, doesn't it? I like it even better as a mystery the way you theorized it. Don't even put it on screen where he goes or how... just that he shows up later and most people have no idea he was even killed. All the witnesses at the wall be like WAT DA FUK?! That's another reason I think that Jon's resurrection won't be until 603 because it will at least establish the feeling (for the casual audience at least) that "HOLY SHIT, Jon might really be gone" If they have Jon coming back from the dead to end 603, it would kind of be a consecutive episode parallel with Dany's ending in 604. Yeah, no way Jon resurrects in episode 1. In fact, things are probably going to look very bleak at first. If Envie's theory is correct, it might explain why the resurrection scene never leaked - because there isn't one. Or if there is one, it wasn't shot at Castle Black, and it would need no extras, not even Carice and Liam around. The other possibility is that Jon just resurrects in that room we see in the trailer, and it didn't leak because it was a small scene with few actors, but that just sounds strange and anticlimactic to me. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 22:05:21 GMT
That's another reason I think that Jon's resurrection won't be until 603 because it will at least establish the feeling (for the casual audience at least) that "HOLY SHIT, Jon might really be gone" If they have Jon coming back from the dead to end 603, it would kind of be a consecutive episode parallel with Dany's ending in 604. I agree with you. When filming first started, I was in the mind frame that it should happen in the very first episode. I badly want it to happen right away. But from a theatric / dramatic perspective, that's not the most impacting way to do it and if I were the show writers I would try to drag it out as long as possible. The cliffhanger wasn't enough. They want to work up the fans and keep people guessing, even those of us who know for certain it's coming. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Davos in that photo is part of a massive trolling teaser from the writers to make people think that's it, the end, he's been burned and gone. Also, We know that Tyrion and Varys invite the Red Priestess Kinvara to Meereen to convince people that Dany is the savior and she even brings up "The One Who Was Promised" (this was from the leaked audition back in July) in conversation with them, so I think that could be in 603/604 and tie into the theme of that episode, which if Jon's resurrection is in the same episode, you start to wonder who really fulfills that prophecy Dany or Jon. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 22:12:36 GMT
I agree with you. When filming first started, I was in the mind frame that it should happen in the very first episode. I badly want it to happen right away. But from a theatric / dramatic perspective, that's not the most impacting way to do it and if I were the show writers I would try to drag it out as long as possible. The cliffhanger wasn't enough. They want to work up the fans and keep people guessing, even those of us who know for certain it's coming. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Davos in that photo is part of a massive trolling teaser from the writers to make people think that's it, the end, he's been burned and gone. Also, We know that Tyrion and Varys invite the Red Priestess Kinvara to Meereen to convince people that Dany is the savior and she even brings up "The One Who Was Promised" (this was from the leaked audition back in July) in conversation with them, so I think that could be in 603/604 and tie into the theme of that episode, which if Jon's resurrection is in the same episode, you start to wonder who really fulfills that prophecy Dany or Jon. I would love this so much! @moiaf has some of the most amazing Jon/Dany parallels and it would be such sweet irony to see a lot of that come to life (through death) for the show by bookending their stories in the same episodes! Oh! Another thing just occurred to me that fits nicely with this "Jesus-like Resurrection" theme ... There's that bit at the start of the trailer from Davos saying "He's Gone..." which dovetails nicely on a much more literal meaning to the words. Much like "He's Dead" isn't the whole picture, "He's Gone" has a double meaning too. He could literally be gone. Vanished. |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on Mar 31, 2016 22:13:55 GMT
Oh! Another thing just occurred to me that fits nicely with this "Jesus-like Resurrection" theme ... There's that bit at the start of the trailer from Davos saying "He's Gone..." which dovetails nicely on a much more literal meaning to the words. Much like "He's Dead" isn't the whole picture, "He's Gone" has a double meaning too. He could literally be gone. Vanished. That'd be wonderful.... and creepy, very creepy. I think it would be very disturbing not to know exactly how Jon is back or why, or where he was if he indeed goes absent for a while. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 22:15:52 GMT
Oh! Another thing just occurred to me that fits nicely with this "Jesus-like Resurrection" theme ... There's that bit at the start of the trailer from Davos saying "He's Gone..." which dovetails nicely on a much more literal meaning to the words. Much like "He's Dead" isn't the whole picture, "He's Gone" has a double meaning too. He could literally be gone. Vanished. That'd be wonderful.... and creepy, very creepy. I think it would be very disturbing not to know exactly how Jon is back or why, or where he was if he indeed goes absent for a while. Well I know it would certainly break MY noodle with that sort of drama! If Jon were to just vanish with no explanation ... they could drag that out for a good long while and the internet would implode. |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on Mar 31, 2016 22:18:31 GMT
That'd be wonderful.... and creepy, very creepy. I think it would be very disturbing not to know exactly how Jon is back or why, or where he was if he indeed goes absent for a while. Well I know it would certainly break MY noodle with that sort of drama! If Jon were to just vanish with no explanation ... they could drag that out for a good long while and the internet would implode. Well Jon has to be back/alive at Castle Black episode 5 at the latest (that's when he rides south, probably). But 3 or 4 episodes for the resurrection business would be enough. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 22:49:43 GMT
Also, We know that Tyrion and Varys invite the Red Priestess Kinvara to Meereen to convince people that Dany is the savior and she even brings up "The One Who Was Promised" (this was from the leaked audition back in July) in conversation with them, so I think that could be in 603/604 and tie into the theme of that episode, which if Jon's resurrection is in the same episode, you start to wonder who really fulfills that prophecy Dany or Jon. I would love this so much! @moiaf has some of the most amazing Jon/Dany parallels and it would be such sweet irony to see a lot of that come to life (through death) for the show by bookending their stories in the same episodes! Oh! Another thing just occurred to me that fits nicely with this "Jesus-like Resurrection" theme ... There's that bit at the start of the trailer from Davos saying "He's Gone..." which dovetails nicely on a much more literal meaning to the words. Much like "He's Dead" isn't the whole picture, "He's Gone" has a double meaning too. He could literally be gone. Vanished. I'm not up-and-up in the latest spoilers but doesn't Dany walk out from a burning (Drgon coughed fire) temple unburnt (again). A very similar rebirth from the first season. Both Dany and Jon will be reborn in yet another parallel. |
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Post by mattpeto on Mar 31, 2016 23:35:47 GMT
I think that it's probably going to be Mel, but I'm not completely ruling out that she's just a red herring. As Envie said, it just seems too convenient and obvious, they had her show up at Castle Black literally two minutes before Jon was stabbed to death. Even my boyfriend figured out that she would bring him back, and he is the most casual GoT viewer ever.  Sometimes the "obvious" prevails... Shireen being sacrificed was obvious after a few hints last year. No red herring for R+L=J either. |
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Post by Nezzer on Mar 31, 2016 23:46:19 GMT
I think that it's probably going to be Mel, but I'm not completely ruling out that she's just a red herring. As Envie said, it just seems too convenient and obvious, they had her show up at Castle Black literally two minutes before Jon was stabbed to death. Even my boyfriend figured out that she would bring him back, and he is the most casual GoT viewer ever. Sometimes the "obvious" prevails... Shireen being sacrificed was obvious after a few hints last year. No red herring for R+L=J either. Yeah, sometimes D&D are really heavy with their foreshadowing. I'll be really surprised if Melisandre isn't the one to resurrect Jon and something else happens instead. I still think she will resurrect him just like Thoros and it will be in the end of episode 2 at the latest, but I'm still betting on it being the last scene of episode 1. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 23:49:37 GMT
Sometimes the "obvious" prevails... Shireen being sacrificed was obvious after a few hints last year. No red herring for R+L=J either. Yeah, sometimes D&D are really heavy with their foreshadowing. I'll be really surprised if Melisandre isn't the one to resurrect Jon and something else happens instead. I still think she will resurrect him just like Thoros and it will be in the end of episode 2 at the latest, but I'm still betting on it being the last scene of episode 1. I'm still betting that Jon's resurrection is the last scene of Episode 3, but we'll see. I can't see it being the premiere because it's only 50 minutes and there's also KL, Meereen, Dothraki Sea, Braavos, and Winterfell to consider. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2016 23:56:25 GMT
Yeah, sometimes D&D are really heavy with their foreshadowing. I'll be really surprised if Melisandre isn't the one to resurrect Jon and something else happens instead. I still think she will resurrect him just like Thoros and it will be in the end of episode 2 at the latest, but I'm still betting on it being the last scene of episode 1. I'm still betting that Jon's resurrection is the last scene of Episode 3, but we'll see. I can't see it being the premiere because it's only 50 minutes and there's also KL, Meereen, Dothraki Sea, Braavos, and Winterfell to consider. It was the sheer volume of "opener" stuff we got spoiled during filming that turned my opinion around on the resurrection happening as part of the 1st episode. There's just so much going on all at once. They left 5 different things on cliffhangers and I knew they were going to focus on every single one of those other things first to drag out the inevitable spoiler since it's really the only one we know about! |
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Post by mattpeto on Apr 1, 2016 0:02:27 GMT
Sometimes the "obvious" prevails... Shireen being sacrificed was obvious after a few hints last year. No red herring for R+L=J either. Yeah, sometimes D&D are really heavy with their foreshadowing. I'll be really surprised if Melisandre isn't the one to resurrect Jon and something else happens instead. I still think she will resurrect him just like Thoros and it will be in the end of episode 2 at the latest, but I'm still betting on it being the last scene of episode 1. Also Olly that little shit.....huge and obvious foreshadowing |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 0:34:09 GMT
Yeah, sometimes D&D are really heavy with their foreshadowing. I'll be really surprised if Melisandre isn't the one to resurrect Jon and something else happens instead. I still think she will resurrect him just like Thoros and it will be in the end of episode 2 at the latest, but I'm still betting on it being the last scene of episode 1. Also Olly that little shit.....huge and obvious foreshadowing So will it be Ghost who rips Olly apart or does Jon kill Olly himself? |
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Post by barristanwhitebeard on Apr 1, 2016 1:20:29 GMT
Also Olly that little shit.....huge and obvious foreshadowing So will it be Ghost who rips Olly apart or does Jon kill Olly himself? Personally, I would like to see him become bubblegum stuck in Wun Wun's shoes. |
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Post by barristanwhitebeard on Apr 1, 2016 1:32:40 GMT
Yeah, sometimes D&D are really heavy with their foreshadowing. I'll be really surprised if Melisandre isn't the one to resurrect Jon and something else happens instead. I still think she will resurrect him just like Thoros and it will be in the end of episode 2 at the latest, but I'm still betting on it being the last scene of episode 1. I'm still betting that Jon's resurrection is the last scene of Episode 3, but we'll see. I can't see it being the premiere because it's only 50 minutes and there's also KL, Meereen, Dothraki Sea, Braavos, and Winterfell to consider. Yeah, it's unlikely that we'll see the resurrection in the premiere. So much going on everywhere, with a lot of cliffhangers. I think it will be at the end of Episode 2. I wouldn't like to see D&D dragging the thing too much, I think a lot of casual fans and critics would feel really annoyed if they do it. Look to what happened with the Glenn business in The Walking Dead. Besides, there's a lot of ground to cover for Jon after the resurrection and before the Snowbowl: from him dealing with the trascendental experience of his death (one cannot die and being resurrected and just be like "cool, I'm back, let's go") to his political maneuverings, rallying the wildlings and the Northern Lords against the Boltons. He needs time. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2016 2:06:33 GMT
I'm still betting that Jon's resurrection is the last scene of Episode 3, but we'll see. I can't see it being the premiere because it's only 50 minutes and there's also KL, Meereen, Dothraki Sea, Braavos, and Winterfell to consider. Yeah, it's unlikely to see the resurrection in the premiere. So much going on everywhere, with a lot of cliffhangers. I think it will be at the end of Episode 2. I wouldn't like to see D&D dragging the thing too much, I think a lot of casual fans and critics would feel really annoyed if they do it. Look to what happened with the Glenn business in The Walking Dead. Besides, there's a lot of ground to cover for Jon after the resurrection and before the Snowbowl: from him dealing with the trascendental experience of his death (one cannot die and being resurrected and just be like "cool, I'm back, let's go") to his political maneuverings, rallying the wildlings and the Northern Lords against the Boltons. He needs time. I only took the highlights from my outline: Episode 1 - Mel and Ghost find Jon's body in the snow  , Mel admits her mistake to Davos , Sansa and Theon are chased by Ramsay's hunters and hounds , Brienne kills most of the hunters, Theon kills the last Bolton Hunter Episode 2 - Sansa and Theon arrive at a weirwood tree on the way to Castle Black and Theon makes his confession?, Roose tells Ramsay that his actions could cost them the North, Mel and Davos steal Jon's body Episode 3 - Sansa assures Brienne that she'll be fine on her own, Brienne travels south with Theon and Pod, Wun Wun breaks through the gates of Castle Black and stomps on Olly?  , Davos kills Alliser, Jon's resurrection  Episode 4 - Sansa arrives at Castle Black and reunites with Jon  , Ramsay writes the Pink Letter Episode 5 - Jon receives the pink letter, Jon leaves Castle Black for The Gift with Sansa, Mel, and Davos Episode 6 - Jon and Sansa call the banners, Sansa and Davos leave for White Harbor, Ramsay kills Roose and Walda  Episode 7 - Jon convinces Tormund and the wildlings to follow him to Winterfell Episode 8 - Sansa and Davos meet with the Northern Lords in White Harbor, Manderly declares his allegiance to House Stark, Sansa rides to Moat Cailin and lets LF and the KotV through, Ramsay meets with Harald and Smalljon Episode 9 - FUCKING EPIC SNOWBOWL    Episode 10 - Mel walks the walls of Winterfell, House Stark Banners are raised, Jon visits Lyanna's tomb  , Sansa is declared Wardeness of the North, Jon meets with Davos and Northern Lords to discuss upcoming WW invasion, Sansa meets with LF in the Godswood (and kills him with his Valyrian dagger but it will probably be saved for S7) |
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Post by barristanwhitebeard on Apr 1, 2016 2:14:22 GMT
Yeah, it's unlikely to see the resurrection in the premiere. So much going on everywhere, with a lot of cliffhangers. I think it will be at the end of Episode 2. I wouldn't like to see D&D dragging the thing too much, I think a lot of casual fans and critics would feel really annoyed if they do it. Look to what happened with the Glenn business in The Walking Dead. Besides, there's a lot of ground to cover for Jon after the resurrection and before the Snowbowl: from him dealing with the trascendental experience of his death (one cannot die and being resurrected and just be like "cool, I'm back, let's go") to his political maneuverings, rallying the wildlings and the Northern Lords against the Boltons. He needs time. I only took the highlights from my outline: Episode 1 - Mel and Ghost find Jon's body in the snow , Mel admits her mistake to Davos , Sansa and Theon are chased by Ramsay's hunters and hounds , Brienne kills most of the hunters, Theon kills the last Bolton Hunter Episode 2 - Sansa and Theon arrive at a weirwood tree on the way to Castle Black and Theon makes his confession?, Roose tells Ramsay that his actions could cost them the North, Mel and Davos steal Jon's body Episode 3 - Sansa assures Brienne that she'll be fine on her own, Brienne travels south with Theon and Pod, Wun Wun breaks through the gates of Castle Black and stomps on Olly? , Davos kills Alliser, Jon's resurrection Episode 4 - Sansa arrives at Castle Black and reunites with Jon , Ramsay writes the Pink Letter Episode 5 - Jon receives the pink letter, Jon leaves Castle Black for The Gift with Sansa, Mel, and Davos Episode 6 - Jon and Sansa call the banners, Sansa and Davos leave for White Harbor, Ramsay kills Roose and Walda Episode 7 - Jon convinces Tormund and the wildlings to follow him to Winterfell Episode 8 - Sansa and Davos meet with the Northern Lords in White Harbor, Manderly declares his allegiance to House Stark, Sansa rides to Moat Cailin and lets LF and the KotV through, Ramsay meets with Harald and Smalljon Episode 9 - FUCKING EPIC SNOWBOWL Episode 10 - Mel walks the walls of Winterfell, House Stark Banners are raised, Jon visits Lyanna's tomb , Sansa is declared Wardeness of the North, Jon meets with Davos and Northern Lords to discuss upcoming WW invasion, Sansa meets with LF in the Godswood (and kills him with his Valyrian dagger but it will probably be saved for S7) I would love to see the northern arc unfolding that way. And yeah, Jon killing Ramsay and then Sansa killing LF would be (finally!) a well deserved moment of triumph for the Starks. A time for Wolves... |
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Post by freeparking on Apr 1, 2016 2:23:27 GMT
There is no way LF dies this season. I think the way things end this year will set up the climax between LF's and Varys's rivalry next season. LF with the North, Vale, Riverlands vs Varys with the Reach, Dorne, Dany. Somthing like that.
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, Mel admits her mistake to Davos , Sansa and Theon are chased by Ramsay's hunters and hounds , Brienne kills most of the hunters, Theon kills the last Bolton Hunter
, Davos kills Alliser, Jon's resurrection 
, Ramsay writes the Pink Letter
, Sansa is declared Wardeness of the North, Jon meets with Davos and Northern Lords to discuss upcoming WW invasion, Sansa meets with LF in the Godswood (and kills him with his Valyrian dagger 