Post by Basil on Aug 5, 2015 18:03:27 GMT
I was talking to my brother recently about Catelyn. I told him that I love her more than I've ever loved any fictional character in anything, and he just looked at me kinda funny and said something like (and I'm paraphrasing): "I hate her. That bitch was mean to Jon Snow".
We then had an hour-long discussion about Catelyn and I tried to explain to him why she acted the way she did towards Jon, why her treatment of him, although morally questionable, doesn't make her an evil bitch, but a flawed human being, all that stuff and I think when we were done, he did kinda see my point.
It kinda occurred to me, that most hate and criticism towards Catelyn as a character originates from the fact that she wasn't fond of Jon Snow - and that's really mystifying to me.
First of all, people often say that Catelyn hated Jon, but I don't think that's necessarily true. I think Catelyn hated Ned's infidelity from which Jon was conceived. Every time she laid eyes upon him, she was reminded of the fact that Ned cheated on her. There is also the point, that Jon posed a legitimate threat to her own children's claim to inheritance. Jon's mere existence was an insult to Catelyn, who was a highborn lady, a daughter of House Tully. And please, Cersei had all her husband's bastards killed, but for some people, somehow Catelyn being mean to Jon Snow seems to be the unforgivable sin.
Also, I feel like there is this common misconception regarding Jon's and Cat's relationship. They weren't like the wicked stepmother and Cinderella. First of all, Catelyn was not Jon's stepmother. She was his father's wife and he was her husband's bastard, she had no obligations towards him whatsoever and according to Westerosi standards, he wasn't even part of the family. Furthermore, I don't think people actually understand how Catelyn normally acted around Jon. She didn't actively seek ways to inflict pain or suffering upon him, nothing like that. She didn't deny him food or education or really any of the privileges his siblings had. She avoided him and when they talked, she was cold and distant towards him. Also occasionally, she would give him cold stares, but that's pretty much it. Catelyn did not abuse Jon, neither emotionally, nor physically.
Then there is the incident in Bran's sickroom. People who hate Catelyn would often quote her from that one scene "It should have been you." And while I do think that was a harsh thing to say to a teenage boy, people need to remember: Catelyn was under an immense mental and physical stress at that point in time. She hadn't slept for days, she was in grief, she was exhausted - and she said something that she probably wouldn't have under normal circumstances. People judge her way to harsh in that one instance, they really need to cut her some slack here.
And the most important thing about all of that is: Catelyn felt guilt over her treatment of Jon Snow. She was perfectly aware of the fact that none of this was Jon's fault and that her anger towards him was unjust, and yet she couldn't swallow her pride, she couldn't bring herself to be his mother, or even be nice to him, but that doesn't make her evil in my eyes, it just makes her a flawed human being, which is actually true for most characters in this series of books.
Anyway, guys, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the subject. Do you blame Catelyn for her treatment of Jon? Do you understand where she was coming from? Is it enough to make you hate her, or do you sympathize?
We then had an hour-long discussion about Catelyn and I tried to explain to him why she acted the way she did towards Jon, why her treatment of him, although morally questionable, doesn't make her an evil bitch, but a flawed human being, all that stuff and I think when we were done, he did kinda see my point.
It kinda occurred to me, that most hate and criticism towards Catelyn as a character originates from the fact that she wasn't fond of Jon Snow - and that's really mystifying to me.
First of all, people often say that Catelyn hated Jon, but I don't think that's necessarily true. I think Catelyn hated Ned's infidelity from which Jon was conceived. Every time she laid eyes upon him, she was reminded of the fact that Ned cheated on her. There is also the point, that Jon posed a legitimate threat to her own children's claim to inheritance. Jon's mere existence was an insult to Catelyn, who was a highborn lady, a daughter of House Tully. And please, Cersei had all her husband's bastards killed, but for some people, somehow Catelyn being mean to Jon Snow seems to be the unforgivable sin.
Also, I feel like there is this common misconception regarding Jon's and Cat's relationship. They weren't like the wicked stepmother and Cinderella. First of all, Catelyn was not Jon's stepmother. She was his father's wife and he was her husband's bastard, she had no obligations towards him whatsoever and according to Westerosi standards, he wasn't even part of the family. Furthermore, I don't think people actually understand how Catelyn normally acted around Jon. She didn't actively seek ways to inflict pain or suffering upon him, nothing like that. She didn't deny him food or education or really any of the privileges his siblings had. She avoided him and when they talked, she was cold and distant towards him. Also occasionally, she would give him cold stares, but that's pretty much it. Catelyn did not abuse Jon, neither emotionally, nor physically.
Then there is the incident in Bran's sickroom. People who hate Catelyn would often quote her from that one scene "It should have been you." And while I do think that was a harsh thing to say to a teenage boy, people need to remember: Catelyn was under an immense mental and physical stress at that point in time. She hadn't slept for days, she was in grief, she was exhausted - and she said something that she probably wouldn't have under normal circumstances. People judge her way to harsh in that one instance, they really need to cut her some slack here.
And the most important thing about all of that is: Catelyn felt guilt over her treatment of Jon Snow. She was perfectly aware of the fact that none of this was Jon's fault and that her anger towards him was unjust, and yet she couldn't swallow her pride, she couldn't bring herself to be his mother, or even be nice to him, but that doesn't make her evil in my eyes, it just makes her a flawed human being, which is actually true for most characters in this series of books.
Anyway, guys, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the subject. Do you blame Catelyn for her treatment of Jon? Do you understand where she was coming from? Is it enough to make you hate her, or do you sympathize?
