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Post by Basil on Aug 7, 2015 11:11:26 GMT
So, because I'm bored out of my mind these days, I've decided to re-watch Season 4 of Game of Thrones (it's the only season I haven't re-watched at all). The first scene of the first episode, where Ned's sword Ice is reforged into Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail - and Tywin throwing the wolfskin into the fire, with fucking Rains of Castamere playing in the background, it made me shed actual tears. And it hurts even more to know that the show has basically scrapped every storyline that dealt with retribution for the Red Wedding, so whatever it is the North supposedly remembers, so far, it hasn't had any actual implications on the story. Fuck the Lannisters, and the Boltons and especially the Freys. LSH needs to kill them all, I don't care anymore, I want justice done.
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 7, 2015 11:58:50 GMT
They really have to make it up to us this season with this Northern story line, but something tells me they wont. The Boltons and the Freys have suffered no consequences from the Red Wedding. Stoneheart always seemed like a good fit. I think a lot of Unsullied would've gotten behind that too.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 12:54:39 GMT
I don't know about Stoneheart, but I'm pretty sure we will still see the downfall of the Boltons and the Freys. Have patience, my fellow northerners.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 16:19:48 GMT
I don't know about Stoneheart, but I'm pretty sure we will still see the downfall of the Boltons and the Freys. Have patience, my fellow northerners. I do think retribution is coming. It's not good storytelling to just consistently keep shitting on the same group of people over and over and others have called it "torture porn" for that fair criticism. At what point do you have to get before you say "You know what? Fuck this show" because they keep tormenting the most loved characters? I actually don't blame some show only fans one bit for getting as upset as I've seen some reactions. In the books, we have a much slower transgression of the 'good' and 'bad' bits but the show had sped everything up and hammered the shit out of people's emotions. Even as a book reader who knew most of the shocking things, I was shocked. GRRM is a good writer. We have to keep reminding ourselves that. The show, even when they change things dramatically, is still taking cues from his writing and will continue to do so. I really don't see the show diverging entirely from the book at this point even without the next book published. There's a plan in there somewhere under that devious torturous mind of George's and we need to keep the faith that wrongs will be righted and even if there's no true 'happy ending' to the overall story, there will be an outcome that makes sense. Based on the history before Game of Thrones, we know this will be repeated.
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Post by Admin on Aug 7, 2015 21:09:01 GMT
The fuck they will do with 3 seasons now that they have to get Jon back and spill the beans on whatever will happen in next book and the whole L+R thing? Such bad planning, such bad planning They should have just leave the Wall to move super slow and give us plenty of action in Riverlands
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:19:55 GMT
The fuck they will do with 3 seasons now that they have to get Jon back and spill the beans on whatever will happen in next book and the whole L+R thing? Such bad planning, such bad planning They should have just leave the Wall to move super slow and give us plenty of action in Riverlands I think I agree with this a little that their overall timeline planning seems wrong. Maybe this has to do with HBO's recent reveal that they will go more seasons? Maybe they originally wrote it on a much tighter schedule and now it's just looking off kilter. Who knows. I do think there was plenty of room in season 4 and 5 for Riverlands stuff even with the big Hardhome and Walk of Shame scenes still in there too. Again, I can only guess they have put off the Riverlands because of some other big reason that comes in TWOW they felt it was more important to shunt all of that to Season 6. Maybe it was actually a brilliant idea to combine it all for reasons we don't know yet.
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Post by Basil on Aug 7, 2015 21:22:42 GMT
The fuck they will do with 3 seasons now that they have to get Jon back and spill the beans on whatever will happen in next book and the whole L+R thing? Such bad planning, such bad planning They should have just leave the Wall to move super slow and give us plenty of action in RiverlandsYes! And it's not only Lady Stoneheart, I'll never get over the fact that they have gotten rid of Jaime's stuff in the Riverlands. Those were among the best chapters George has ever written, imo, and they really helped flesh out Jaime as a character a lot. The stuff they gave Jaime to do in Season 5 was so bad, especially in comparison to his amazing book storyline.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:28:13 GMT
The fuck they will do with 3 seasons now that they have to get Jon back and spill the beans on whatever will happen in next book and the whole L+R thing? Such bad planning, such bad planning They should have just leave the Wall to move super slow and give us plenty of action in RiverlandsYes! And it's not only Lady Stoneheart, I'll never get over the fact that they have gotten rid of Jaime's stuff in the Riverlands. Those were among the best chapters George has ever written, imo, and they really helped flesh out Jaime as a character a lot. The stuff they gave Jaime to do in Season 5 was so bad, especially in comparison to his amazing book storyline. I definitely agree about the Jaime choices. When the plot turned and he was sent to Dorne, I figured there had to be some really big epic reason for that sudden switch in his story that would remove him from his redemption arc in the Riverlands, very important to his character's development ... but no. It ended up being nothing. Ok, so Myrcella died in his arms at the end - that was pretty dramatic ... but was it worth a complete reversal of his story arc? I am only hoping they redeem themselves there by returning Jaime to the Riverlands in S6 to pick that back up. A lot of what he did there was pretty key important to political / war events too such as breaking the siege of Riverrun. I had assumed they were just dropping all of that entirely from the story. We've seen no return of the actors for Blackfish or Brynden ...or even any of the prominent Freys for that matter. Everything is a damn mystery right now. Lady Stoneheart could return if the rest of them do, there's still room for it - but since the rest are still not revealed, I'm skeptical of any of it at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:34:42 GMT
I think with Jaime and Brienne going elsewhere in s5 actually was meant to put off they're going to the Riverlands until s6. It's beginning to look like they saved all of this until s6 for a reason, which would indicate some amount of planning.
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Post by Admin on Aug 7, 2015 21:37:36 GMT
I think with Jaime and Brienne going elsewhere in s5 actually was meant to put off they're going to the Riverlands until s6. It's beginning to look like they saved all of this until s6 for a reason, which would indicate some amount of planning. That's pretty shitty planning to have 2 resurrections in one season. Also any planning which includes bad pussy...is a bad planning.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:45:27 GMT
I think with Jaime and Brienne going elsewhere in s5 actually was meant to put off they're going to the Riverlands until s6. It's beginning to look like they saved all of this until s6 for a reason, which would indicate some amount of planning. That's pretty shitty planning to have 2 resurrections in one season. Well, if LSH is in s6, she'd have to have been resurrected long ago.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:49:47 GMT
That's pretty shitty planning to have 2 resurrections in one season. Well, if LSH is in s6, she'd have to have been resurrected long ago. Unless they're just going to do that vague timewarp thing along with no-aging baby Sam... sometimes they just don't explain time passing at all on the show so maybe we'll be left to assume hardly no time has passed since the Red Wedding haha.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:51:11 GMT
It's also entirely possible she could have been active all this time with BWB but we just haven't heard about it because no one's talking about the Riverlands for the past season ... it's like everything there sunk into a black hole. Maybe she and the BWB have actually been doing things off camera and we're going to just now learn about it belatedly. Grasping here. ...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:51:20 GMT
Well, if LSH is in s6, she'd have to have been resurrected long ago. Unless they're just going to do that vague timewarp thing along with no-aging baby Sam... sometimes they just don't explain time passing at all on the show so maybe we'll be left to assume hardly no time has passed since the Red Wedding haha. Still, the resurrection was even offscreen in ASOS, so we wouldn't see it anyways.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:51:48 GMT
It's also entirely possible she could have been active all this time with BWB but we just haven't heard about it because no one's talking about the Riverlands for the past season ... it's like everything there sunk into a black hole. Maybe she and the BWB have actually been doing things off camera and we're going to just now learn about it belatedly. Grasping here. ... That would be the much more likely option if she's in. But there are also tons of ways to do the plotline without her.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 21:52:29 GMT
Unless they're just going to do that vague timewarp thing along with no-aging baby Sam... sometimes they just don't explain time passing at all on the show so maybe we'll be left to assume hardly no time has passed since the Red Wedding haha. Still, the resurrection was even offscreen in ASOS, so we wouldn't see it anyways. True, which validates my second post and theory ... she's actually been 'alive' all this time, we just haven't heard about it from the show perspective with no PoV there.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 22:03:17 GMT
I forgot about this article I read awhile back until just now so I had to go look it up. While it's focused on the importance of LSH to the story from GRRM's point of view, it's also crucial evidence that we should be careful what we wish for in wanting Jon Snow resurrected. www.ew.com/article/2015/05/31/game-thrones-lady-stoneheartHe says: We will most probably not get the same Jon Snow if Melisandre or Others do resurrect him. It's also worth mentioning that if they were willing to cut Catelyn's resurrection, they could also cut Jon Snow's. Except for the fact Kit's been spotted repeatedly in Belfast lately of course and because he's likely a central key player in the 'endgame' ... but still, it begs to argue why not resurrect her too?
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Post by Basil on Aug 7, 2015 22:15:19 GMT
We will most probably not get the same Jon Snow if Melisandre or Others do resurrect him. It's also worth mentioning that if they were willing to cut Catelyn's resurrection, they could also cut Jon Snow's. Except for the fact Kit's been spotted repeatedly in Belfast lately of course and because he's likely a central key player in the 'endgame' ... but still, it begs to argue why not resurrect her too? If it really turns out that Jon has warged Ghost in the moments before his death, this would mean that Jon's "soul" never died, only his body. So if Melisandre should resurrect his corpse, his soul could return to his body as if nothing has happened. That's a theory I've read somewhere, but I still think it is entirely possible that Melisandre is a Red Herring and that Jon either stays dead, or is brought back by someone or something else.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 22:20:08 GMT
We will most probably not get the same Jon Snow if Melisandre or Others do resurrect him. It's also worth mentioning that if they were willing to cut Catelyn's resurrection, they could also cut Jon Snow's. Except for the fact Kit's been spotted repeatedly in Belfast lately of course and because he's likely a central key player in the 'endgame' ... but still, it begs to argue why not resurrect her too? If it really turns out that Jon has warged Ghost in the moments before his death, this would mean that Jon's "soul" never died, only his body. So if Melisandre should resurrect his corpse, his soul could return to his body as if nothing has happened. That's a theory I've read somewhere, but I still think it is entirely possible that Melisandre is a Red Herring and that Jon either stays dead, or is brought back by someone or something else. LC Bran.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2015 23:44:53 GMT
I actually think D&D were always planning on doing 8 seasons and their 7 seasons talk was just a smart move to get more money from HBO. I don't think that the last two seasons were rushed at all. Season 4 was practically only the last third of SoS. I can understand why some of you think that Season 5 was rushed, but I have to disagree with you there, too. They just chose to tell the whole story for half of the characters instead of half of the story for all the characters. This is something George himself did with the last two books. We will get the Riverlands and the Greyjoys next season. Concerning Lady Stoneheart: I don't think that her exclusion depended on how many seasons they got or when they knew how many seasons they'll get. If she's cut, it's because of story reasons and NOT because of time reasons. I think it's much more likely that they cut her simply because they thought she'd be unnecessary and wouldn't contribute anything good to the show. Nevertheless, I still believe that a season 6 reveal is possible. Just let Bran have a vision of his mother in the river in 6x01 and everything will fall into place after that.
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