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Post by mattpeto on Jul 6, 2015 13:14:17 GMT
I found this blogger hilarious on GRRM. At first I thought it might be Sati trying to save book Stannis, but Sati isn't as crazy haha. Abhishek Vyas Jul. 3rd, 2015 11:25 am (UTC) About Shireens Death : VERYYYYYYY IMP. PLEASE READ Hello Sir i am Abhishek Vyas a writer from India, i have recently finished a novel about time travel"infinity quest of a time traveler" As a fellow novelist i want to convince you that Shireens death is not right. Your story is an epic story which will not remain an immortal epic if you kill Shireen. You have killed each and everyone with proper logic but Shireen is out of context and way past beyond the limit of brutality. I loved your game of thrones so i request you please do not destroy this beautiful song of fire and ice please do not let her be sacrificed in later parts. Save her to make your story immortal. I request you. If you read this please mail me at abhishekvyas@live.in and i will try to convince you that Shireen must be saved to save your epic story. i care for game of thrones and i love song of fire and ice i dont care about any other changes please save Shireen its a humble request for the sake of immortality of the story. MAIL ME. grrm.livejournal.com/
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 15:10:24 GMT
I found this blogger hilarious on GRRM. At first I thought it might be Sati trying to save book Stannis, but Sati isn't as crazy haha. Abhishek Vyas Jul. 3rd, 2015 11:25 am (UTC) About Shireens Death : VERYYYYYYY IMP. PLEASE READ Hello Sir i am Abhishek Vyas a writer from India, i have recently finished a novel about time travel"infinity quest of a time traveler" As a fellow novelist i want to convince you that Shireens death is not right. Your story is an epic story which will not remain an immortal epic if you kill Shireen. You have killed each and everyone with proper logic but Shireen is out of context and way past beyond the limit of brutality. I loved your game of thrones so i request you please do not destroy this beautiful song of fire and ice please do not let her be sacrificed in later parts. Save her to make your story immortal. I request you. If you read this please mail me at abhishekvyas@live.in and i will try to convince you that Shireen must be saved to save your epic story. i care for game of thrones and i love song of fire and ice i dont care about any other changes please save Shireen its a humble request for the sake of immortality of the story. MAIL ME. grrm.livejournal.com/... He approved this comment? Lawd.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 22:43:04 GMT
Poor thing. You'd think by this time she'd have advanced to the resolved anyone-can-be-killed stage that Arya has taught us all so effectively.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2015 22:47:02 GMT
Stannis fans, it takes all kinds.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2015 21:39:50 GMT
Oh my god(s?).
That was hilarious.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Jul 8, 2015 5:29:01 GMT
Immortality of the story sounds like she's trying to save GRRM's soul.
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 8, 2015 13:52:45 GMT
My God what did I just read? lol
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 11:33:28 GMT
Interesting thread.
I think in the books it is all a bit more complicated than in the show, but some basics are consistent. The true nature of the Pink Letter is the main wildcard. Chances are good that it was in fact written by Ramsay, and the inconsistencies people have noticed in relation to his other correspondence and to certain events are just because he is not a particularly consistent or truthful guy. But, if he didn't write it, then all other possible author theories lead to the same basic conclusion IMO, which is that Stannis does in fact have the means to influence events at Castle Black to some extent, directly or indirectly, and that means is related to the Pink Letter: Stannis has ravens he just captured, materials to fake a seal, good reason to use deception, etc.
If we go by the assumption that the Pink Letter was written by Ramsay then we can guess or conclude a few things:
1. Stannis lost at Winterfell. He might have escaped, but if so, Ramsay must have reason to believe he is dead. Ramsay doesn't know what Stannis looks like so I suppose it is possible that a dead guys was dressed as Stannis in order to allow him to escape. I simply can't come up with a good reason Ramsay would say that Stannis is dead if he doesn't believe it to be true.
2. If Stannis is dead, then either he never consents in the books to Shireen being burned and the blame lands entirely on Mel and Selyse, or he consented much earlier off-page but only as a last resort. In other words, he would have to have agreed with Mel beforehand to use Shireen if and only if there was clearly no other way. To me this is actually very plausible, because it helps explain both Stannis and Selyse's strange refusal to understand that their ideas on wildling royalty are completely ridiculous. It is stubborness born out of a desire to find another way and spare Shireen. All of them must have known the situation would get very bad based on Mel's visions even if they did not know the details.
3. So, having learned that Stannis was defeated via the Pink Letter, Mel takes that as the signal that the point of desperation has been reached. She burns Shireen with the intent of reviving Stannis, with Stannis's prior reluctant consent, and Selyse's participation. The wildlings are ok with this because they don't like Shireen's greyscale. Probably they are preoccupied by the bloodbath between them and the Watch mutineers anyway.
4. Shireen's burning has pretty much no effect. I very much doubt it has anything to do with Jon. I think it absolutely needs to happen before Mel turns her attention to Jon at all, because once Stannis is no longer her focus, she will know that Stannis was not really a King and so Shireen has no King's blood. She has to believe Stannis is the one true King for Shireen's burning to make any sense at all. My guess then is that Shireen's burning happens pretty much immediately, during the chaos of the mutiny, and that is where Mel went when she left the Hall where Jon was reading the Pink Letter.
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Post by boojam on May 2, 2016 11:08:54 GMT
So did the show, last night, give away a big spoiler for Winds of Winter. George has hinted (implied?) this, or something like this, would happen to Jon.
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Post by kingeomer on May 2, 2016 12:07:55 GMT
So did the show, last night, give away a big spoiler for Winds of Winter. George has hinted (implied?) this, or something like this, would happen to Jon. I just remember GRRM stating in an interview after Dance was released, "Is he?" in response to Jon Snow being dead. I fully expect him to come back in the books (I'd be more surprised if he stayed dead). Whether it's via Melisandre or some type of Northern magic, remains to be seen.
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Post by mattpeto on May 2, 2016 13:19:45 GMT
Yes I was going to post the same thing. Of course we don't know if he actually died, like he officially did in GoT, he could simply be on life support in the books.
Gut says he actually died in ADWD and gets resurrected in TWOW.
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Post by boojam on May 2, 2016 13:24:35 GMT
Yes I was going to post the same thing. Of course we don't know if he actually died, like he officially did in GoT, he could simply be on life support in the books. Gut says he actually died in ADWD and gets resurrected in TWOW. And not a stinking Maester in a hundred leagues.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 2, 2016 14:25:34 GMT
I think the way it works in the books is: Melissandre has the queens menwhoare devout to her, the Night's watch converts and maybe some wildlings burn Shireen to resurrect Jon, who she now believes is Azor Ahai after reading the red letter. Shireen is killed or kills herself. Meanwhile, Stannis wins at Wintrfell thanks to the Manderly's + other northerners turning on Roose in the castle. Afterwards the Northerners turn on Stannis and is men, killing them. This way we see the northerners are loyal to the Starks, not the Iron Throne, George gets his big twist, and Stannis gets a surprising death. Also, it fits with Manderly's character as a secret mastermind; Stannis was a means to an end to unite the North, and win Winterfell, and now the Starks can return.
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Post by mattpeto on May 2, 2016 14:28:54 GMT
I think the way it works in the books is: Melissandre has the queens menwhoare devout to her, the Night's watch converts and maybe some wildlings burn Shireen to resurrect Jon, who she now believes is Azor Ahai after reading the red letter. Shireen is killed or kills herself. Meanwhile, Stannis wins at Wintrfell thanks to the Manderly's + other northerners turning on Roose in the castle. Afterwards the Northerners turn on Stannis and is men, killing them. This way we see the northerners are loyal to the Starks, not the Iron Throne, George gets his big twist, and Stannis gets a surprising death. Also, it fits with Manderly's character as a secret mastermind; Stannis was a means to an end to unite the North, and win Winterfell, and now the Starks can return. That sounds great, but the show's version of the story will be even more superior IMO. I like the fact that the Boltons won and it's going to take Sansa and Jon to rally the heart of the North.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2016 14:51:26 GMT
I assume it will go like this in the books: Stannis wins the Frey host at the frozen lake, but loses at the gates of Winterfell. At the Wall Mel & Selyse hear about his demise and try to resurrect him by burning Shireen alive. That does nothing for Stan, but Jon Snow opens his eyes.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 7:16:34 GMT
I assume it will go like this in the books: Stannis wins the Frey host at the frozen lake, but loses at the gates of Winterfell. At the Wall Mel & Selyse hear about his demise and try to resurrect him by burning Shireen alive. That does nothing for Stan, but Jon Snow opens his eyes. I don't think Shireen's death will revive Jon. Shireen's burning is based on the idea she has King's blood. However there is a really very large question mark hovering over Stannis's status. Is he a King? He has some followers, yes, but not many, and not even all of the Crownlands bannermen whose overloard he was supposed to be. He certainly was never acknowledged as King of Westeros. If Stannis is not a King, Shireen's King's blood rests on more distant ancestry. Which makes it a much less powerful thing. I don't think it has the power to work as Kingsblood magic. It would just be a burning, nothing much more.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 7:25:36 GMT
I assume it will go like this in the books: Stannis wins the Frey host at the frozen lake, but loses at the gates of Winterfell. At the Wall Mel & Selyse hear about his demise and try to resurrect him by burning Shireen alive. That does nothing for Stan, but Jon Snow opens his eyes. I don't think Shireen's death will revive Jon. Shireen's burning is based on the idea she has King's blood. However there is a really very large question mark hovering over Stannis's status. Is he a King? He has some followers, yes, but not many, and not even all of the Crownlands bannermen whose overloard he was supposed to be. He certainly was never acknowledged as King of Westeros. If Stannis is not a King, Shireen's King's blood rests on more distant ancestry. Which makes it a much less powerful thing. I don't think it has the power to work as Kingsblood magic. It would just be a burning, nothing much more. Stannis being king doesn't matter. She has kingsblood because Robert. And because of Targaryens.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 7:32:10 GMT
I don't think Shireen's death will revive Jon. Shireen's burning is based on the idea she has King's blood. However there is a really very large question mark hovering over Stannis's status. Is he a King? He has some followers, yes, but not many, and not even all of the Crownlands bannermen whose overloard he was supposed to be. He certainly was never acknowledged as King of Westeros. If Stannis is not a King, Shireen's King's blood rests on more distant ancestry. Which makes it a much less powerful thing. I don't think it has the power to work as Kingsblood magic. It would just be a burning, nothing much more. Stannis being king doesn't matter. She has kingsblood because Robert. And because of Targaryens. Aye, no matter what way you look at it she has it in some form. The question though is how direct it needs to be to have power. If it is just a question of life paying for life then maybe. But Robert was not her father, her great grandmother was never queen, etc. so the only king directly in her line is her great great grandfather. Not clear IMO if that is enough to have its own power.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 3, 2016 19:29:06 GMT
I think we are all forgetting a certain blue eyed Wildling who thinks Shireen and her Greyscale are dangerous and she should have been put to death. IMO she is just as likely as Mel to have Shireen killed. Or perhaps the two reach an agreement together.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 19:33:26 GMT
I think we are all forgetting a certain blue eyed Wildling who thinks Shireen and her Greyscale are dangerous and she should have been put to death. IMO she is just as likely as Mel to have Shireen killed. Or perhaps the two reach an agreement together. Would Val burn her though?
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