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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 6:29:55 GMT
I hate to be the prick who brings up the Classical allusion that the scene referred to BUT basically all of Greece followed Agamemnon all through the Trojan War (so for ten years) after he sacrificed his daughter for religious reasons... That's really more of a literary example than a historical one, of course, but it's clearly what GrrM and D and D were going for with this. So to quote Joffrey from ep. 302..."it's not unheard of." There's a mythological precedent for this that the writers are well aware of.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 6:39:35 GMT
To bring up the particular Classical allusion that the scene referred to, basically all of Greece followed Agamemnon all through the Trojan War (so for ten years) after he sacrificed his daughter for religious reasons... That's really more of a literary example than a historical one, of course, but it's clearly what GrrM and D and D were going for with this. I love Greek Mythology and the lines were always blurred in the realm of Gods and Men, it's true. I have often compared the religions of GRRM's world to a scattered collective of the Greek Gods without the overall power of them being all under one roof, unless you count The House of Black and White that is ...  Unfortunately, this wasn't Troy and Stannis has never been on the level of Agamemnon in power, not even close. Those were the things of legends. Stannis isn't even particularly liked by most of his own countrymen. The comparison, though valid, is still pretty weak. That being said, I would prefer the alternate story of his daughter's sacrifice where a DEER (ahem, hello stag statue) was accepted by Artemis in his daughter's place and she then took the girl away and she became Hecate. Fuck yeah Shireen, come back as a Goddess and serve justice to those wronged!  Edit: And yes, that would be Stoneheart's role as well.  Edit2: @konradsmith you edited your post after I quoted it already and why? To call yourself a prick? LOL no. |
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2015 6:44:43 GMT
Finally got time tonight to read your great review sati. It deserved time to absorb and reflect after I'd had time to calm down. I'm still upset about the episode overall but trying to see it as a whole and not just the Shireen burning which has unfortunately drowned out pretty much everything else and made the final scenes with Drogon and Dany flying feel cheapened somehow. I especially liked your line: "Drogon looks at her and doesn't hurt her. BECAUSE EVEN DROGON KNOWS YOU DON'T BURN YOUR OWN FUCKING FAMILY."Thank you!  Honestly if I was in Stannis' army I'd renounce him right there and haul ass out of the camp. If he burns her, he is just ruthless - how can you trust a man who can have anyone burnt? Remember Ned's words to Robert - you're no better than the Mad King? And that was about assassinating pregnant woman with poison which is nowhere near as awful as killing your own child by burning her alive Exactly! That's exactly the point Ozzy Man made in his video review I linked. Who the fuck is going to follow a king who burns his own daughter ffs!? Not even the horrific shit Ramsay's pulled can really top that, can it? This now puts Stannis in the same league as Joffrey and King Arys ... the people are not going to follow a king like that - how can they ever think this is going to work out? Thanks so much! I was seriously in disbelief when I saw this episode. Never before has my opinion on character change so drastically so fast. And what a terrible timing. Who cares who wins the battle of WF now? I certainly don't. I hate to be the prick who brings up the Classical allusion that the scene referred to BUT basically all of Greece followed Agamemnon all through the Trojan War (so for ten years) after he sacrificed his daughter for religious reasons... That's really more of a literary example than a historical one, of course, but it's clearly what GrrM and D and D were going for with this. So to quote Joffrey from ep. 302..."it's not unheard of." There's a mythological precedent for this that the writers are well aware of. I really wouldn't drag GRRM into this. Until there is his version of the scene there is no basis to claim Stannis does it in the books. I know you interpret Inside the Ep video like that but I disagree with your interpretation completely. Also...so? That something happened in one story doesn't make it more plausible for it to happen in whole different story. This doesn't even work on the show because 1. Stannis had other options than killing Shireen 2. he didn't even do that directly to win with WW at the point. Horrible set up, horrible timing. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 7:24:05 GMT
4x09
2x09
3x09
1x09
5x09
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 7:27:55 GMT
Finally got time tonight to read your great review sati. It deserved time to absorb and reflect after I'd had time to calm down. I'm still upset about the episode overall but trying to see it as a whole and not just the Shireen burning which has unfortunately drowned out pretty much everything else and made the final scenes with Drogon and Dany flying feel cheapened somehow. I especially liked your line: "Drogon looks at her and doesn't hurt her. BECAUSE EVEN DROGON KNOWS YOU DON'T BURN YOUR OWN FUCKING FAMILY."Thank you! Exactly! That's exactly the point Ozzy Man made in his video review I linked. Who the fuck is going to follow a king who burns his own daughter ffs!? Not even the horrific shit Ramsay's pulled can really top that, can it? This now puts Stannis in the same league as Joffrey and King Arys ... the people are not going to follow a king like that - how can they ever think this is going to work out? Thanks so much! I was seriously in disbelief when I saw this episode. Never before has my opinion on character change so drastically so fast. And what a terrible timing. Who cares who wins the battle of WF now? I certainly don't. I hate to be the prick who brings up the Classical allusion that the scene referred to BUT basically all of Greece followed Agamemnon all through the Trojan War (so for ten years) after he sacrificed his daughter for religious reasons... That's really more of a literary example than a historical one, of course, but it's clearly what GrrM and D and D were going for with this. So to quote Joffrey from ep. 302..."it's not unheard of." There's a mythological precedent for this that the writers are well aware of. I really wouldn't drag GRRM into this. Until there is his version of the scene there is no basis to claim Stannis does it in the books. I know you interpret Inside the Ep video like that but I disagree with your interpretation completely. Also...so? That something happened in one story doesn't make it more plausible for it to happen in whole different story. This doesn't even work on the show because 1. Stannis had other options than killing Shireen 2. he didn't even do that directly to win with WW at the point. Horrible set up, horrible timing. This. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 7:36:10 GMT
I think the set up was all there since ep. 210. Myself and many others thought it was leading somewhere else of course but now that I know what was being aimed at, it's pretty clear in retrospect. The timing, I think, is the main alteration here.
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Post by freypies on Jun 10, 2015 7:36:28 GMT
What was so horrible about the set-up? I think that it was done very well.
Episode 4- establishes the love for his daughter.
Episode 7- "this is the time, and I will risk everything". From previous seasons, we already know that Stannis is a character who puts duty above everything else.
Episode 9- situation is dire after Ramsay burns supplies. Stannis goes to Shireen for one last, heartbreaking conversation, decides upon what must be done. He is in inner turmoil as he watches her burn, but, consistent to himself, hides the emotions that he is feeling.
I fail to see how the timing or set-up were off at all.
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Post by Admin on Jun 10, 2015 7:53:24 GMT
What was so horrible about the set-up? I think that it was done very well. Episode 4- establishes the love for his daughter. Episode 7- "this is the time, and I will risk everything". From previous seasons, we already know that Stannis is a character who puts duty above everything else. Episode 9- situation is dire after Ramsay burns supplies. Stannis goes to Shireen for one last, heartbreaking conversation, decides upon what must be done. He is in inner turmoil as he watches her burn, but, consistent to himself, hides the emotions that he is feeling. I fail to see how the timing or set-up were off at all. 1. Situation is not dire - Davos offered to take her. It is not the alternative of freezing and starving vs being burnt 2. Davos went to get supplies, Stannis and others were still not close to death, it was not the choice between death and life it was the preemptive burning - it's not bad, but it will get worse so let's get it over with 3. Mel's magic haven't even killed Balon yet. Unlike in the books Stannis doesn't have whole much to believe if he burns his child, the Lord WILL respond |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 9:01:26 GMT
If we're ranking the episode 9s...
Blackwater
The Dance of Dragons
The Rains of Castamere
Baelor
Paint Drying
Watchers on the Wall
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 9:03:17 GMT
If we're ranking the episode 9s... Blackwater The Dance of Dragons The Rains of Castamere Baelor Paint DryingWatchers on the Wall Ah, so that's what ep. 609 will be called? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 9:05:36 GMT
If we're ranking the episode 9s... Blackwater The Dance of Dragons The Rains of Castamere Baelor Paint Drying Watchers on the Wall Lol I think this is what my list would be as well, without the paint drying bit.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 9:07:18 GMT
Baelor Blackwater The Rains of Castamere The Watchers on the Wall . . . . Every other episode . . . . . . . . The Dance of Dragons  |
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sj4iy
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 10, 2015 11:49:50 GMT
If we're ranking the episode 9s... Blackwater The Dance of Dragons The Rains of Castamere Baelor Paint DryingWatchers on the Wall Ah, so that's what ep. 609 will be called? Well, Dany will be waiting for her big attack as the paint job on the red keep dries. It will be very metaphorical. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 11:53:52 GMT
If we're ranking the episode 9s... Blackwater The Dance of Dragons The Rains of Castamere Baelor Paint DryingWatchers on the Wall Ah, so that's what ep. 609 will be called? If we're ranking the episode 9s... Blackwater The Dance of Dragons The Rains of Castamere Baelor Paint Drying Watchers on the Wall Lol I think this is what my list would be as well, without the paint drying bit. I just needed to show how much I don't care for WotW |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 14:33:33 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 15:19:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 15:32:00 GMT
Lol at "astronaut vs caveman" |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2015 22:55:22 GMT
I'm LOL'ing at "Fire Crotch Mage" as Mel's official title from the author. I'm going to call her that now too. She did have one point at the end that got me: "And hey! Book readers! Looks like Shireen dies in a future book. HOW MUCH DO SPOILERS SUCK!?! Now you see why I’m so adamant about it. (They are the worst.)" It's kinda true. Even if you were one of those who saw it coming (we all got the anvil foreshadowing) and believed they were going to actually burn her (kudos to you for guessing right you sick bastages!) ... it was still a massive spoiler that was made even worse when they admitted George confirmed it. It's the first time I've felt like I really understand how the more intelligent unsullied viewers must feel. It was horrible. I don't like it!  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 2:37:58 GMT
That was great! How nice to be able to laugh at a review of an episode that hurt so bad! |
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