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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 22:01:01 GMT
A. Olyvar then will be wanted for lying to the gods. He's likely already on trial himself for "buggery." B. Littlefinger won't want Olyvar to run when tearing down the Tyrells serves his purposes just as much as tearing down Cersei. A. Olyvar would loudly and publicly recant, blame all his lies on Cersei. And the next time the Sparrows go to drag him, he mysteriously can't be found. And he is never heard from or seen again, courtesy of Littlefinger.
B. The Tyrells have the food, they have the gold and LF and Olenna make a formidable team for getting things done behind the scenes. The Tyrells are useful to him.
Thanks to Ser Pounce for proposing the Olyvar idea, and I agree with A and B above. Because of what the HS said to Cersei when she inquired as to the punishment for Loras and Marge - that it would depend on the individual situation, the severity of the crime, the degree of atonement (or whatever word he used, same idea), I think it's quite possible that L and M would come out relatively OK. But I can't see the HS conspiring with Olenna to 'trade' L and M for Cersei. On another note altogether, it occurred to me while watching Tommen last night -- does he not have a clue about his parentage? Even after the things the crowd shouted at him when he'd first gone to see the HS? |
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Post by King Tommen on May 25, 2015 22:07:45 GMT
Remember that FrankenGregor is definitely a thing on the show. It appears likely Cersei will use him to fight some kind of Trial by Combat in the name of the Crown so it's likely that a Tyrell trial will still happen. The only question is which Tyrell. I wouldn't be surprised if they work it so Loras takes part in a Trial by Combat (for himself or on Marge's behalf) vs Robert Strong where he gets destroyed and then we basically have him maybe dead/near death as he is in the books.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 22:11:14 GMT
Remember that FrankenGregor is definitely a thing on the show. It appears likely Cersei will use him to fight some kind of Trial by Combat in the name of the Crown so it's likely that a Tyrell trial will still happen. The only question is which Tyrell. I wouldn't be surprised if they work it so Lancel takes part in a Trial by Combat (for himself or on Marge's behalf) vs Robert Strong where he gets destroyed and then we basically have him maybe dead/near death as he is in the books. Did you mean to say Loras, rather than Lancel? |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 22:11:22 GMT
A. Olyvar would loudly and publicly recant, blame all his lies on Cersei. And the next time the Sparrows go to drag him, he mysteriously can't be found. And he is never heard from or seen again, courtesy of Littlefinger.
B. The Tyrells have the food, they have the gold and LF and Olenna make a formidable team for getting things done behind the scenes. The Tyrells are useful to him.
Thanks to Ser Pounce for proposing the Olyvar idea, and I agree with A and B above. Because of what the HS said to Cersei when she inquired as to the punishment for Loras and Marge - that it would depend on the individual situation, the severity of the crime, the degree of atonement (or whatever word he used, same idea), I think it's quite possible that L and M would come out relatively OK. But I can't see the HS conspiring with Olenna to 'trade' L and M for Cersei. On another note altogether, it occurred to me while watching Tommen last night -- does he not have a clue about his parentage? Even after the things the crowd shouted at him when he'd first gone to see the HS? Good question. He surely heard what people shouted at him, but he hasn't really anyone to talk about it, does he? Tommen can't confront Cersei anymore, so I think we will have to wait and see what will be brought up against her besides sleeping with Lancel. |
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Post by Enid on May 25, 2015 22:15:11 GMT
Thanks to Ser Pounce for proposing the Olyvar idea, and I agree with A and B above. Because of what the HS said to Cersei when she inquired as to the punishment for Loras and Marge - that it would depend on the individual situation, the severity of the crime, the degree of atonement (or whatever word he used, same idea), I think it's quite possible that L and M would come out relatively OK. But I can't see the HS conspiring with Olenna to 'trade' L and M for Cersei. On another note altogether, it occurred to me while watching Tommen last night -- does he not have a clue about his parentage? Even after the things the crowd shouted at him when he'd first gone to see the HS? Good question. He surely heard what people shouted at him, but he hasn't really anyone to talk about it, does he? Tommen can't confront Cersei anymore, so I think we will have to wait and see what will be brought up against her besides sleeping with Lancel. I think he might know about the rumors thanks to Stannis letter (because all Westeros knows about the incest thanks to him) but probably thinks is a lie. Tommen is too innocent to think his mother is capable of something like that, he stills trust her with Margery FFS |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 22:21:09 GMT
Good question. He surely heard what people shouted at him, but he hasn't really anyone to talk about it, does he? Tommen can't confront Cersei anymore, so I think we will have to wait and see what will be brought up against her besides sleeping with Lancel. I think he might know about the rumors thanks to Stannis letter (because all Westeros knows about the incest thanks to him) but probably thinks is a lie. Tommen is too innocent to think his mother is capable of something like that, he stills trust her with Margery FFS It will be interesting how they will deliver the messageto him that his mother is arrested, and moreover who will deliver it. He relied so much on Margaery and Cersei, I kinda feel sorry for him. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 22:29:45 GMT
Good question. He surely heard what people shouted at him, but he hasn't really anyone to talk about it, does he? Tommen can't confront Cersei anymore, so I think we will have to wait and see what will be brought up against her besides sleeping with Lancel. I think he might know about the rumors thanks to Stannis letter (because all Westeros knows about the incest thanks to him) but probably thinks is a lie. Tommen is too innocent to think his mother is capable of something like that, he stills trust her with Margery FFS Good point - he is pure innocence at this point [To Margery: "Do you and Mother not get along?"  ], though I'm guessing that innocence will have a rather short life. |
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Post by King Tommen on May 25, 2015 22:38:16 GMT
Remember that FrankenGregor is definitely a thing on the show. It appears likely Cersei will use him to fight some kind of Trial by Combat in the name of the Crown so it's likely that a Tyrell trial will still happen. The only question is which Tyrell. I wouldn't be surprised if they work it so Lancel takes part in a Trial by Combat (for himself or on Marge's behalf) vs Robert Strong where he gets destroyed and then we basically have him maybe dead/near death as he is in the books. Did you mean to say Loras, rather than Lancel? I definitely did. Duly edited. |
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Post by serpounce on May 25, 2015 23:00:15 GMT
It was definitely Lancel. I don't understand why the show had to have Littlefinger and Olenna involved, though. If the High Sparrow had Lancel's confession from the start, you have to wonder why he waited until that moment to arrest Cersei. It makes him seem less sincere if he's intentionally messing with Cersei. But if the High Sparrow had only just talked to Lancel, his arrest of Cersei at that moment makes sense and he comes off as more of an honest true believer. But I don't think the show established that Lancel was keeping that information close to his chest. He blurted it out immediately to Cersei at Tywin's funeral, and then got a star covered on his forehead. It does seem strange that he needed Olenna to persuade him to come forward. Obviously Lancel did not confess all his sins right away to the High Sparrow or Cersei would've been arrested long before she was. The idea is that LF tells Olenna that Lancel has the goods, Olenna goes to either Lancel or the HS with this info, Lancel confirms and Cersei gets arrested. They skipped showing the audience the middle steps because they wanted the Cersei and HS scene to be a surprise for the audience. It's honestly no more complicated than that. I actually think that while Lancel took his time sharing all his sins, this isn't the first the HS has heard of Cersei's sins. I think he knew of it when Cersei came to talk to him and played along. If he had arrested her the moment he'd learned of her transgressions, he would have been challenged and most likely would have lost. But arresting Loras first, then Margaery and having the Cersei's blessing set a precedent for arresting her. Even in the books, Margaery set the precedent for Cersei. It's not that easy for a religious man to arrest a powerful woman like Cersei. Starting with Margaery is a great lead in to that and had Cersei stepped in at that point, there is a good chance she could have stopped them. Sadly, Cersei was way too blinded by her petty revenge to realize what a Pandora's box she was opening for herself and, eventually, her children, by allowing it. |
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 23:59:02 GMT
Good question. He surely heard what people shouted at him, but he hasn't really anyone to talk about it, does he? Tommen can't confront Cersei anymore, so I think we will have to wait and see what will be brought up against her besides sleeping with Lancel. I think he might know about the rumors thanks to Stannis letter (because all Westeros knows about the incest thanks to him) but probably thinks is a lie. Tommen is too innocent to think his mother is capable of something like that, he stills trust her with Margery FFS Exactly - poor Tommen has been raised to trust his Mother implicitly. Never forget she was about to poison him when King's Landing was sacked ... and he would have done as she told him to do. Cersei has always expected to rule through Tommen where she never would have been able to do that with Joffrey. Joffrey put her in her place very early on and everyone, Cersei included, knew he was out of control. Tommen is the pendulum swinging the other way ... too controlled and powerless. He likely is very aware of the rumors but does not believe them because he does not believe his Mother would lie to him. Poor kid is doomed really. |
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Post by King Tommen on May 26, 2015 0:04:53 GMT
"Aren't you and Mother getting along?" says everything you need to know about Tommen in one quick naive question to Margaery. That's the line that should be written on his tombstone.
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on May 26, 2015 15:41:48 GMT
A. Olyvar then will be wanted for lying to the gods. He's likely already on trial himself for "buggery." B. Littlefinger won't want Olyvar to run when tearing down the Tyrells serves his purposes just as much as tearing down Cersei. Why would serve Littlefinger's purposes to see the Tyrells teared down? that would go against him, as Olenna said, they worked together to kill a king, if the Tyrells go down, Littlefinger does too. Littlefinger may want to see Cersei destroyed because she wants to kill Sansa and because the Faith destroyed his whore-house, but the Tyrells had nothing to do with that. I'd sooner surmise they do go down and Olenna hires a Facelessman to kill Petyr. If Margaery and Loras just walk away due to lack of evidence against them the Tyrells go right back to the same place they've been in for the whole story. There needs to be progression. And the Tyrells are still in LF'ers way just as much as Cersei. He needs to chip away at some of that. |
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], though I'm guessing that innocence will have a rather short life. 
