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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 10:17:17 GMT
I doubt anybody is more upset about Barristan's death than I am, but I still don't think it's accurate to claim that the actor was 'fired.' If the producers had a falling out with Ian and recast him with a different actor, then you could say he was fired. As it stands, he fulfilled his role in the story as the producers envisioned for this adaptation. I do feel for the actor as it seems that he was really into the books and world of ASOIAF more than any of the other actors, and I do feel that the show really underutilized this actor/character and should have done him justice more often, but we all feel that way about our favorite characters.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 11:56:57 GMT
I know he's read the books, so he was likely looking forward to the badass scenes later in the series. But this would take screen time from Dany, DanyXDaario, GreyWormXMissandei and other pointless shit in Mereen. And this would mean D&D would have less to wank over. Lol at including Dany herself as "pointless shit". The entire Meereen arc is about HER. The Dany scenes with her doing the whole "but Daario, what should I do?" scenes are important? I'm not talking about the actual scenes, I mean the bullshit ones. You saying you'd prefer to watch Dany and Daario have conversations about how Dany needs a better world view than watch old man Barry break the Ghiscari lines. Cause I know which one of these wins it for me hand down. |
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Post by boojam on May 10, 2015 13:10:11 GMT
I doubt anybody is more upset about Barristan's death than I am, but I still don't think it's accurate to claim that the actor was 'fired.' If the producers had a falling out with Ian and recast him with a different actor, then you could say he was fired. As it stands, he fulfilled his role in the story as the producers envisioned for this adaptation. I do feel for the actor as it seems that he was really into the books and world of ASOIAF more than any of the other actors, and I do feel that the show really underutilized this actor/character and should have done him justice more often, but we all feel that way about our favorite characters. One would like to know what the discussion between Ian and D&D was. It sounds as if it were a civil discussion, Ian being a fan of the books might have been asking "is this a spoiler for Winds of Winter"? Even if Barristan does not last through Winds , from what has been published he seems to play are role in the events in the battle in front of Meereen, which can have effect on the over all story plot going forward. Has anyone ever put forward this theory? George revealed two Barristan chapters in and the Tyrion (Winds chapter)(which involved Selmy) in 2013. Could this have been due to Powwow with D&D in early 2013? Was GRRM gouging them about future plans, on the show, for Ser Barry? |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 14:03:25 GMT
I doubt anybody is more upset about Barristan's death than I am, but I still don't think it's accurate to claim that the actor was 'fired.' If the producers had a falling out with Ian and recast him with a different actor, then you could say he was fired. As it stands, he fulfilled his role in the story as the producers envisioned for this adaptation. I do feel for the actor as it seems that he was really into the books and world of ASOIAF more than any of the other actors, and I do feel that the show really underutilized this actor/character and should have done him justice more often, but we all feel that way about our favorite characters. One would like to know what the discussion between Ian and D&D was. It sounds as if it were a civil discussion, Ian being a fan of the books might have been asking "is this a spoiler for Winds of Winter"? Even if Barristan does not last through Winds , from what has been published he seems to play are role in the events in the battle in front of Meereen, which can have effect on the over all story plot going forward. Has anyone ever put forward this theory? George revealed two Barristan chapters in and the Tyrion (Winds chapter)(which involved Selmy) in 2013. Could this have been due to Powwow with D&D in early 2013? Was GRRM gouging them about future plans, on the show, for Ser Barry? It's hard to say, we don't know the time lime of when D&D finalized their outline for the AFFC/ADWD material. I'm not sure GRRM's reveal of those chapters had to do with the show, they strike me as chapters that strike the balance between generating hype for the new book without spoiling away too much game-changing material. Barristan looks like unfortunate collateral damage of the decision to cut Victarion and the Battle of Meereen, and to expedite Dany's return to Westeros. Once those decisions had been made, D&D had to decide how to send off the character with the most dramatic impact. They gave him some more lines in season 4(although I think they should have had Jorah banished earlier than they did) and some nice moments in season 5, after using him as set dressing in season 3. His conversations about Rhaegar were well done, as was his final fight. After several years of missed opportunities, I started to worry that the actor wasn't up for fight scenes, but I thought he did a great job fighting the Sons of the Harpy. Not many characters in this series get to go out like a hero, but Barristan certainly did. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 15:43:25 GMT
I think this was the reason to kill off Barry:
He dies in the Battle of Meereen. The battle is cut from the show due the time constraints so they decided to kill him before.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 16:19:51 GMT
I think this was the reason to kill off Barry: He dies in the Battle of Meereen. The battle is cut from the show due the time constraints so they decided to kill him before. I think this is really all there is to it. Doing this gives them the opportunity to use this as further motivation for Daenerys to try and get peace. |
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Post by kingeomer on May 10, 2015 16:42:32 GMT
I think this was the reason to kill off Barry: He dies in the Battle of Meereen. The battle is cut from the show due the time constraints so they decided to kill him before. You might be very right. I also think because Tyrion's plot has changed from show to book in some aspects, they couldn't have Barristan and Tyrion serving the same role. I think in the show, Dany will still leave with Drogon and it will be Tyrion who will be running Meereen in her absence. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 16:50:17 GMT
I think this was the reason to kill off Barry: He dies in the Battle of Meereen. The battle is cut from the show due the time constraints so they decided to kill him before. You might be very right. I also think because Tyrion's plot has changed from show to book in some aspects, they couldn't have Barristan and Tyrion serving the same role. I think in the show, Dany will still leave with Drogon and it will be Tyrion who will be running Meereen in her absence. Yeah, I think too that's what's going to happen. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 18:13:12 GMT
I think this was the reason to kill off Barry: He dies in the Battle of Meereen. The battle is cut from the show due the time constraints so they decided to kill him before. You might be very right. I also think because Tyrion's plot has changed from show to book in some aspects, they couldn't have Barristan and Tyrion serving the same role. I think in the show, Dany will still leave with Drogon and it will be Tyrion who will be running Meereen in her absence. Based on previews and hints and photos, it does look like Tyrion's going to be there with Dany very soon so your theory is plausible. I was quite surprised at how quickly they fast forwarded his story. Slightly disappointed they cut the whole trip/boat/Griffs bits - that could have been a whole season but then again, like Meereen stuff, could drag out and not be worth the effort if the end game doesn't included those characters anyways. So yes, I've come to terms with them killing off Barristan in a 'heroic' way since apparently he's not going to be around in the books much longer either if he dies in the battle of Meereen, sadly.  Onward and upward I guess. I'll be rooting for Tyrion and some hilarity in his adapting to Meereen life! I wonder how much power he'll actually have while Dany's gone and how they will tackle the political stuff then. Exciting stuff to look forward to! |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 18:35:16 GMT
Lol at including Dany herself as "pointless shit". The entire Meereen arc is about HER. The Dany scenes with her doing the whole "but Daario, what should I do?" scenes are important? I'm not talking about the actual scenes, I mean the bullshit ones. You saying you'd prefer to watch Dany and Daario have conversations about how Dany needs a better world view than watch old man Barry break the Ghiscari lines. Cause I know which one of these wins it for me hand down. Yes, I'd rather watch scenes about Dany struggling to rule, than some random action scenes. This show and the books they're based on are character driven. It's not really about the action, which there isn't that much of in the grand scheme of things. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 18:41:25 GMT
The Dany scenes with her doing the whole "but Daario, what should I do?" scenes are important? I'm not talking about the actual scenes, I mean the bullshit ones. You saying you'd prefer to watch Dany and Daario have conversations about how Dany needs a better world view than watch old man Barry break the Ghiscari lines. Cause I know which one of these wins it for me hand down. Yes, I'd rather watch scenes about Dany struggling to rule, than some random action scenes. This show and the books they're based on are character driven. It's not really about the action, which there isn't that much of in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, but now the Barristan stuff is either gone or handed to someone else, I dont just mean the action. Barry pretty much takes over the shop after Dany 'dissapears'. Granted if Daznak's is in ep9 and Dany up and leaves at this point then there would be no time for that anyway. But it just feels like a lot of stuff in Mereen doesnt really add up to much. Just my opinion. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Most likely im just bitching because Barry is gone. But I liked Barristan. Now Mereen is just Daario and Grey worm along with Dany. (Dont count Hizdar as being fully behind Dany) At least Jorah seems to be n his way. I wonder if he get his 'tattoo' along the way?... |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 18:43:05 GMT
Yes, I'd rather watch scenes about Dany struggling to rule, than some random action scenes. This show and the books they're based on are character driven. It's not really about the action, which there isn't that much of in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, but now the Barristan stuff is either gone or handed to someone else, I dont just mean the action. Barry pretty much takes over the shop after Dany 'dissapears'. Granted if Daznak's is in ep9 and Dany up and leaves at this point then there would be no time for that anyway. But it just feels like a lot of stuff in Mereen doesnt really add up to much. Just my opinion. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Most likely im just bitching because Barry is gone. But I liked Barristan. Now Mereen is just Daario and Grey worm along with Dany. (Dont count Hizdar as being fully behind Dany) At least Jorah seems to be n his way. I wonder if he get his 'tattoo' along the way?... Daznak is definitely 509. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 18:57:14 GMT
Yes, I'd rather watch scenes about Dany struggling to rule, than some random action scenes. This show and the books they're based on are character driven. It's not really about the action, which there isn't that much of in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, but now the Barristan stuff is either gone or handed to someone else, I dont just mean the action. Barry pretty much takes over the shop after Dany 'dissapears'. Granted if Daznak's is in ep9 and Dany up and leaves at this point then there would be no time for that anyway. But it just feels like a lot of stuff in Mereen doesnt really add up to much. Just my opinion. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Most likely im just bitching because Barry is gone. But I liked Barristan. Now Mereen is just Daario and Grey worm along with Dany. (Dont count Hizdar as being fully behind Dany) At least Jorah seems to be n his way. I wonder if he get his 'tattoo' along the way?... I don't think we're going to get much Meereen stuff without Dany. For most of the books/show we only spend any time in Essos to follow Dany's story. For many readers/viewers, Meereen is barely tolerable with Dany, and I fear that Meereenpolitik without Dany wouldn't go over well with the viewers. I imagine that post Dany's flight we'll quickly get Dany to Westeros, or simply follow her story with the Dothraki, but I don't expect the show to feel obligated to check in to Meereen much, beyond whatever Tyrion is up to. I am going to miss Barristan too, but I think this is a sign that the show is getting antsy to get Dany out of Essos. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 19:02:33 GMT
Yeah, but now the Barristan stuff is either gone or handed to someone else, I dont just mean the action. Barry pretty much takes over the shop after Dany 'dissapears'. Granted if Daznak's is in ep9 and Dany up and leaves at this point then there would be no time for that anyway. But it just feels like a lot of stuff in Mereen doesnt really add up to much. Just my opinion. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Most likely im just bitching because Barry is gone. But I liked Barristan. Now Mereen is just Daario and Grey worm along with Dany. (Dont count Hizdar as being fully behind Dany) At least Jorah seems to be n his way. I wonder if he get his 'tattoo' along the way?... I don't think we're going to get much Meereen stuff without Dany. For most of the books/show we only spend any time in Essos to follow Dany's story. For many readers/viewers, Meereen is barely tolerable with Dany, and I fear that Meereenpolitik without Dany wouldn't go over well with the viewers. I imagine that post Dany's flight we'll quickly get Dany to Westeros, or simply follow her story with the Dothraki, but I don't expect the show to feel obligated to check in to Meereen much, beyond whatever Tyrion is up to. I am going to miss Barristan too, but I think this is a sign that the show is getting antsy to get Dany out of Essos. Cant say I blame them. Im harsh on the show, but a lot of it falls to George's writing Tread carefully here. I'm not suggesting theres anything bad about it, but I remember hearing something abiut George claiming the books were written with the idea that they wouldn't be adapted. Mereen seems massively to hint this. I mean it's a massive story, and to devote fully to it would mean cutting back on everything else. So yeah, I can see why a lot of stuff is being cut. I just would of liked more Barristan, especially after the Dany scene where they discussed Rhaegar. They were onto something good there |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 19:04:24 GMT
Yeah, but now the Barristan stuff is either gone or handed to someone else, I dont just mean the action. Barry pretty much takes over the shop after Dany 'dissapears'. Granted if Daznak's is in ep9 and Dany up and leaves at this point then there would be no time for that anyway. But it just feels like a lot of stuff in Mereen doesnt really add up to much. Just my opinion. Maybe it does maybe it doesnt. Most likely im just bitching because Barry is gone. But I liked Barristan. Now Mereen is just Daario and Grey worm along with Dany. (Dont count Hizdar as being fully behind Dany) At least Jorah seems to be n his way. I wonder if he get his 'tattoo' along the way?... Daznak is definitely 509. Yep. Which is why I can see them ending this series on Dany and Drogon + Dothraki meeting or at least have this as her or Mereens final scene this series. Which IMO would be an awesome cliff hanger. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 19:20:36 GMT
I don't think we're going to get much Meereen stuff without Dany. For most of the books/show we only spend any time in Essos to follow Dany's story. For many readers/viewers, Meereen is barely tolerable with Dany, and I fear that Meereenpolitik without Dany wouldn't go over well with the viewers. I imagine that post Dany's flight we'll quickly get Dany to Westeros, or simply follow her story with the Dothraki, but I don't expect the show to feel obligated to check in to Meereen much, beyond whatever Tyrion is up to. I am going to miss Barristan too, but I think this is a sign that the show is getting antsy to get Dany out of Essos. Cant say I blame them. Im harsh on the show, but a lot of it falls to George's writing Tread carefully here. I'm not suggesting theres anything bad about it, but I remember hearing something abiut George claiming the books were written with the idea that they wouldn't be adapted. Mereen seems massively to hint this. I mean it's a massive story, and to devote fully to it would mean cutting back on everything else. So yeah, I can see why a lot of stuff is being cut. I just would of liked more Barristan, especially after the Dany scene where they discussed Rhaegar. They were onto something good there I actually liked Dany's ADWD story more than most readers, but I knew that the show wouldn't be able to do it justice. AFFC/ADWD especially becomes impossible to adapt, and if the show had attempted to be completely faithful, it would have lost a ton of non-readers. Even with the compressed version some viewers feel that this scene is moving along really slowly. The show would've had to cast a ton of characters in Meereen that will have no relevance to the end-game, it's kind of a lose-lose situation. I agree that the real problem is not using Barristan enough. I think they should have banished Jorah earlier in season 4 to give Barristan more time as her senior adviser. It's not like Jorah did much last year aside from frowning at Daario. |
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Post by King Tommen on May 10, 2015 19:22:21 GMT
I think it's pretty clear in the answer that McElhinney gives that the reason they killed off Barristan at this point is that they need a big and jarring enough motivator for Dany to decide to marry Hizdahr as a last gasp desperation move to hold on to her reign in Meereen. It would be very tough to get Dany to this place this season when they needed her to without having a monumental event to turn her.
Her agreeing to marry Hizdahr in the books was a long drawn out process whereby it was more about her reluctantly acceding to multiple requests from her many Meereenese advisors (who don't exist on the show). Her making this decision rashly and out of desperation is far more dramatically satisfying than her shrugging her shoulders and going with the flow after being badgered for the better part of a season.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 19:26:01 GMT
Bullshit, we need 90 days of peace in Meereen and it should be shown in real time.
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Post by King Tommen on May 10, 2015 19:29:41 GMT
In terms of anyone being unprofessional in this situation, I don't see either side being so. McElhinney (as many actors do) wanted to stick around and thought he'd plead his case. D&D were good enough to chat with him afterwards regarding the reasons why they made this decision and McElhinney obviously understands, even if he's not happy about not getting more material.
At the end of the day, the stuff that Barristan was going to do after Daznak's was an easy cut. I'm not a television writer but even I could tell after reading everything in Meereen after Dany leaves would never be something you would bother with on the TV show. And if you know the character isn't going to accompany Dany to Westeros, then you may as well send him off with a heroic death and have it actually lead to a pivotal decision by Dany which drives the events of the 2nd half of the season.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 19:30:53 GMT
Cant say I blame them. Im harsh on the show, but a lot of it falls to George's writing Tread carefully here. I'm not suggesting theres anything bad about it, but I remember hearing something abiut George claiming the books were written with the idea that they wouldn't be adapted. Mereen seems massively to hint this. I mean it's a massive story, and to devote fully to it would mean cutting back on everything else. So yeah, I can see why a lot of stuff is being cut. I just would of liked more Barristan, especially after the Dany scene where they discussed Rhaegar. They were onto something good there I actually liked Dany's ADWD story more than most readers, but I knew that the show wouldn't be able to do it justice. AFFC/ADWD especially becomes impossible to adapt, and if the show had attempted to be completely faithful, it would have lost a ton of non-readers. Even with the compressed version some viewers feel that this scene is moving along really slowly. The show would've had to cast a ton of characters in Meereen that will have no relevance to the end-game, it's kind of a lose-lose situation. I agree that the real problem is not using Barristan enough. I think they should have banished Jorah earlier in season 4 to give Barristan more time as her senior adviser. It's not like Jorah did much last year aside from frowning at Daario. Ha, yeah. Personally I would have banished Jorah at the end of series 3, so that bringing him back in 5 would have been a lot more rewarding and hyped up. I don't dislike Mereen. I dislike how so much has to be cut. But I get that its inevitable. Kinda like what they did in the Vale with Sansa. Instead of spending a series introducing new stuff, they went straight to the point and got her to Ramsay. A massive change, but it works. Of course issue with that is that Dany's story doesnt have anyother it can collide with. Sure Tyrion and Varys are set to join them but they came as a result of her story their. And the Slavers bay stuff needed to happen. But like the books it kinda feels like a dead weight. Because either way Dany will have to leave it to get to Westeros. It doesnt feel as important as Westeros since there are no other big events happening there in the same way as Westeros, with most major plotlines. It just makes the character seem segregated. I'm looking forward to Tyrion and Varys arriving though (if Varys is still on course). Will be good to have more familiar characters there. |
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