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Post by King Tommen on May 29, 2015 5:26:35 GMT
Even Elio didn't see the connection and that guy can tell you every Targaryen king in successive order and who all their siblings were. If you're an o bsessive LSH fan, then I can see how this can feel like trolling. For 99.99% of the rest of the audience, this is directly referencing a major event that will happen in the episode which both the show and books have called "Mother's Mercy". So it's up to you whether you want to see what you want to see from this and get bent out of shape when it inevitably doesn't happen. I'll probably just enjoy the episode. And for anyone who truly follows the comments and actions of D&D, you know in your heart that they don't intentionally troll book fans, they are way too busy and have their heads in the sand when it comes to what they need to do on the show to bother with that. JFC do you not see how offensively condescending you are being? Just to be clear, you wouldn't characterize yourself as an obsessive LSH fan? I kind of thought that was your thing. If I was a fan of something and pored through every sliver of news looking for some kind of connection of it being included, I would definitely find things all the time that I would assume meant this thing was happening that other fans didn't. Because, you know, I obsess about it. And yeah, D&D don't care about book readers, they're too busy to even know what their beefs are with the show. It's ignorance not malice. |
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 5:43:37 GMT
JFC do you not see how offensively condescending you are being? Just to be clear, you wouldn't characterize yourself as an obsessive LSH fan? I kind of thought that was your thing. If I was a fan of something and pored through every sliver of news looking for some kind of connection of it being included, I would definitely find things all the time that I would assume meant this thing was happening that other fans didn't. Because, you know, I obsess about it. And yeah, D&D don't care about book readers, they're too busy to even know what their beefs are with the show. It's ignorance not malice. Ignorance is worse than malice. And I'd characterize myself as fan. Obsessive has pejorative connotations. |
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 5:45:02 GMT
Wouldn't LSH need to be the final scene, which would completely overshadow FTW which also is so monumental that it needs to be the final scene? For me, personally, FTW is nothing comparing to LSH so I say go ahead, overshadow it  But I know Jon fans disagree |
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Post by King Tommen on May 29, 2015 5:47:32 GMT
As long as we agree that it's ignorance, not a deliberate troll job on a segment of the fanbase.
I will remove "obsessive" as an adjective. But it has to be "superfan", not just fan, right?
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 6:21:59 GMT
As long as we agree that it's ignorance, not a deliberate troll job on a segment of the fanbase. I will remove "obsessive" as an adjective. But it has to be "superfan", not just fan, right? I absolutely do not agree. I'm just stating that ignorance is worse than malice. I have no idea - and neither do you - which ones apply to D&D - being unaware of the nickname and ignorant or trolling and malicious. They are both possible |
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Post by greatjon on May 29, 2015 6:25:57 GMT
If there is no LSH, and I suspect there wont be. Then the only rational interpretation is that they were trolling with that name. There is no alternative explanation.
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Post by King Tommen on May 29, 2015 6:37:38 GMT
If there is no LSH, and I suspect there wont be. Then the only rational interpretation is that they were trolling with that name. There is no alternative explanation. Of course there is but I'm sure a group of people have made up their minds. What exactly would be to gain from them doing it to piss off a part of the fanbase exactly? When have they ever shown that they are making malicious attempts to anger book fans for their own amusement? If you wanted to convince me that Lena Headey was trying to troll fans, then I'd buy it because she clearly has a history of doing so. It's far more likely that they chose the title because it is a book term (which has also been used on the show) which accurately depicts one of the major scenes of the episode. And they didn't know it had a meaning associated with LSH. Unless you are a LSH superfan, that's not the association you make. I've read the books and I sure didn't draw that conclusion. Once something gets online and a couple people go searching around book appendices and it gets posted everywhere, then it becomes clear to more fans that you could use this to connect to LSH but that's not what happens when you're putting the season together. You come up with a title that makes sense at the time. |
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 7:14:01 GMT
If there is no LSH, and I suspect there wont be. Then the only rational interpretation is that they were trolling with that name. There is no alternative explanation. Of course there is but I'm sure a group of people have made up their minds. What exactly would be to gain from them doing it to piss off a part of the fanbase exactly? When have they ever shown that they are making malicious attempts to anger book fans for their own amusement? If you wanted to convince me that Lena Headey was trying to troll fans, then I'd buy it because she clearly has a history of doing so. It's far more likely that they chose the title because it is a book term (which has also been used on the show) which accurately depicts one of the major scenes of the episode. And they didn't know it had a meaning associated with LSH. Unless you are a LSH superfan, that's not the association you make. I've read the books and I sure didn't draw that conclusion. Once something gets online and a couple people go searching around book appendices and it gets posted everywhere, then it becomes clear to more fans that you could use this to connect to LSH but that's not what happens when you're putting the season together. You come up with a title that makes sense at the time. Wrong on so many accounts but just browsing the web a lot of people made the connection not just 'LS superfans'. It appears that in this case you just weren't terribly observant. What do they gain? Hype. IF LS is not in they have been effectively generating it for THREE years just with the titles and refusal to grow some balls and state outright 'she is never gonna be on the show'. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 7:22:09 GMT
Wouldn't LSH need to be the final scene, which would completely overshadow FTW which also is so monumental that it needs to be the final scene? For me, personally, FTW is nothing comparing to LSH so I say go ahead, overshadow it But I know Jon fans disagree I never thought it was going to end with For the Watch to begin with but having it end with LSH would be a connection to Jon's possible resurrection. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 7:55:17 GMT
Of course there is but I'm sure a group of people have made up their minds. What exactly would be to gain from them doing it to piss off a part of the fanbase exactly? When have they ever shown that they are making malicious attempts to anger book fans for their own amusement? If you wanted to convince me that Lena Headey was trying to troll fans, then I'd buy it because she clearly has a history of doing so. It's far more likely that they chose the title because it is a book term (which has also been used on the show) which accurately depicts one of the major scenes of the episode. And they didn't know it had a meaning associated with LSH. Unless you are a LSH superfan, that's not the association you make. I've read the books and I sure didn't draw that conclusion. Once something gets online and a couple people go searching around book appendices and it gets posted everywhere, then it becomes clear to more fans that you could use this to connect to LSH but that's not what happens when you're putting the season together. You come up with a title that makes sense at the time. Wrong on so many accounts but just browsing the web a lot of people made the connection not just 'LS superfans'. It appears that in this case you just weren't terribly observant. What do they gain? Hype. IF LS is not in they have been effectively generating it for THREE years just with the titles and refusal to grow some balls and state outright 'she is never gonna be on the show'. But why do they need that hype? The total percentage of their viewership that both would actually look at episode titles and analyse them, and wants Lady Stoneheart to be in the show, is fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I also don't see how "The Children" really relates to Lady Stoneheart all that much. She is a mother, but then so are many other characters. I don't know why they don't say she's cut, but I also don't feel they have some sort of obligation too |
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 8:01:15 GMT
Wrong on so many accounts but just browsing the web a lot of people made the connection not just 'LS superfans'. It appears that in this case you just weren't terribly observant. What do they gain? Hype. IF LS is not in they have been effectively generating it for THREE years just with the titles and refusal to grow some balls and state outright 'she is never gonna be on the show'. But why do they need that hype? The total percentage of their viewership that both would actually look at episode titles and analyse them, and wants Lady Stoneheart to be in the show, is fairly insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I also don't see how "The Children" really relates to Lady Stoneheart all that much. She is a mother, but then so are many other characters. I don't know why they don't say she's cut, but I also don't feel they have some sort of obligation too Does the hype hurt? No. They don't need it, but by not being definitive on the matter, they are sustaining it For me it was "The Children" title BUT coupled with "Oathkeeper" track which has the notes from Oath swearing scene between Cat and Bri |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 8:06:59 GMT
I suppose they are, but to imply that they're doing it intentionally sounds unlikely to me. I don't think ignorance is worse than malice. It's a fair bit of effort for precious little gain.
I don't think the evidence was overwhelming for Season 4. Sure, characters referenced Cat and how she died frequently, but she was an important part of the show. I find it hard to believe they would have a huge moment as the final scene of Season 4, and not at least have setup by mentioning Frey's being hanged. Now the same thing is happening this season.
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 8:13:28 GMT
I suppose they are, but to imply that they're doing it intentionally sounds unlikely to me. I don't think ignorance is worse than malice. It's a fair bit of effort for precious little gain. I don't think the evidence was overwhelming for Season 4. Sure, characters referenced Cat and how she died frequently, but she was an important part of the show. I find it hard to believe they would have a huge moment as the final scene of Season 4, and not at least have setup by mentioning Frey's being hanged. Now the same thing is happening this season. Malice at least takes some intelligence and planning. Ignorance is just the sign of them being lazy and dismissive. No one said overwhelming, there is never really evidence, just hints. The LS scene itself would be a setup. No one mentions the Freys because no one mentions Riverlands. But the issue of sacrifice, Lord of Light was brought up, even Thoros got name dropped. The thing for the audience to know now is 1. she is back 2. it is possible to be back, not the extent of her vengeance. It's gonna be about hope for retaliation after seeing Sansa get raped, Jon get stabbed etc. The retaliation comes next year. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 8:24:16 GMT
I suppose they are, but to imply that they're doing it intentionally sounds unlikely to me. I don't think ignorance is worse than malice. It's a fair bit of effort for precious little gain. I don't think the evidence was overwhelming for Season 4. Sure, characters referenced Cat and how she died frequently, but she was an important part of the show. I find it hard to believe they would have a huge moment as the final scene of Season 4, and not at least have setup by mentioning Frey's being hanged. Now the same thing is happening this season. Malice at least takes some intelligence and planning. Ignorance is just the sign of them being lazy and dismissive. No one said overwhelming, there is never really evidence, just hints. The LS scene itself would be a setup. No one mentions the Freys because no one mentions Riverlands. But the issue of sacrifice, Lord of Light was brought up, even Thoros got name dropped. The thing for the audience to know now is 1. she is back 2. it is possible to be back, not the extent of her vengeance. It's gonna be about hope for retaliation after seeing Sansa get raped, Jon get stabbed etc. The retaliation comes next year. I disagree. You can be ignorant of something and not be lazy and dismissive. Most people are largely ignorant of plant biology or molecular physics for example. In this case, I think D&D are simply not aware that they're driving LS fans crazy, and I know they're not the only ones for whom the hints aren't there, because I don't see them, and it didn't cross my mind with this title till I read forums. Fair enough on the second point. I still think narratively because of how much time has passed they needed to set it up more, but I suppose it does qualify as setup on it's own. |
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 8:32:40 GMT
Malice at least takes some intelligence and planning. Ignorance is just the sign of them being lazy and dismissive. No one said overwhelming, there is never really evidence, just hints. The LS scene itself would be a setup. No one mentions the Freys because no one mentions Riverlands. But the issue of sacrifice, Lord of Light was brought up, even Thoros got name dropped. The thing for the audience to know now is 1. she is back 2. it is possible to be back, not the extent of her vengeance. It's gonna be about hope for retaliation after seeing Sansa get raped, Jon get stabbed etc. The retaliation comes next year. I disagree. You can be ignorant of something and not be lazy and dismissive. Most people are largely ignorant of plant biology or molecular physics for example. In this case, I think D&D are simply not aware that they're driving LS fans crazy, and I know they're not the only ones for whom the hints aren't there, because I don't see them, and it didn't cross my mind with this title till I read forums. Fair enough on the second point. I still think narratively because of how much time has passed they needed to set it up more, but I suppose it does qualify as setup on it's own. D&D do not deal with plant biology or molecular physics. They are people who claim to be the fans of the books, who read the books and who are getting PAID to adapt the books. So it is their passion and their job. not knowing things like this in their position is the sign of laziness and lack of research. Not caring about fan reaction is being dismissive. |
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 8:36:36 GMT
Hold up, I have a better point - they were asked about her directly about LS and didn't answer. They were asked about her in God knows how many interviews and didn't provide the definitive statement. Not only are they refusing to give a proper answer they are absolutely aware of people's interest in the character and the expectations for each finale to have her in it.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 8:45:26 GMT
I disagree. You can be ignorant of something and not be lazy and dismissive. Most people are largely ignorant of plant biology or molecular physics for example. In this case, I think D&D are simply not aware that they're driving LS fans crazy, and I know they're not the only ones for whom the hints aren't there, because I don't see them, and it didn't cross my mind with this title till I read forums. Fair enough on the second point. I still think narratively because of how much time has passed they needed to set it up more, but I suppose it does qualify as setup on it's own. D&D do not deal with plant biology or molecular physics. They are people who claim to be the fans of the books, who read the books and who are getting PAID to adapt the books. So it is their passion and their job. not knowing things like this in their position is the sign of laziness and lack of research. Not caring about fan reaction is being dismissive. There are roughly 1.77 million words in ASOIAF. Remembering all the information and names is a significant task, especially when they aren't repeated. If Mother Merciless is used more than twice in the series I'd be quite surprised. It's only human to not know some things, especially in a context in which there is a vast wealth of information. There are almost certainly gaps in their knowledge as there is in any paid profession. And who knows, maybe they do care about fan reaction, we can't read their minds and they haven't really said otherwise (other than saying they don't listen to purists, which fair enough). But that shouldn't affect their work on the show to much of a degree. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 8:48:37 GMT
Hold up, I have a better point - they were asked about her directly about LS and didn't answer. They were asked about her in God knows how many interviews and didn't provide the definitive statement. Not only are they refusing to give a proper answer they are absolutely aware of people's interest in the character and the expectations for each finale to have her in it. They clearly know people have interest in the character, but I don't know if they really do think there are expectations for her to be turning up in every finale. As to why they won't give a definitive answer, I have no idea. Given the total lack of information on that point I don't think I can really speculate. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2015 9:17:47 GMT
I mean if I was a hardcore Aegon fan (I'm not), wouldn't I think that the E9 title "The Dance of Dragons" is totally trolling me? I mean, I know it's about Daznak's but the titles always have dual meanings right? Why would they do this to me unless they intentionally wanted to screw with me? There can't be any other reason. I've been waiting for a long time for Aegon to show up and they shouldn't be faking me out like this. Aegon and Catelyn are hardly comparable. And in any case, I'm sure there will be people who would consider that a troll as well. |
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Post by Admin on May 29, 2015 9:19:39 GMT
D&D do not deal with plant biology or molecular physics. They are people who claim to be the fans of the books, who read the books and who are getting PAID to adapt the books. So it is their passion and their job. not knowing things like this in their position is the sign of laziness and lack of research. Not caring about fan reaction is being dismissive. There are roughly 1.77 million words in ASOIAF. Remembering all the information and names is a significant task, especially when they aren't repeated. If Mother Merciless is used more than twice in the series I'd be quite surprised. It's only human to not know some things, especially in a context in which there is a vast wealth of information. There are almost certainly gaps in their knowledge as there is in any paid profession. And who knows, maybe they do care about fan reaction, we can't read their minds and they haven't really said otherwise (other than saying they don't listen to purists, which fair enough). But that shouldn't affect their work on the show to much of a degree. Hold up, I have a better point - they were asked about her directly about LS and didn't answer. They were asked about her in God knows how many interviews and didn't provide the definitive statement. Not only are they refusing to give a proper answer they are absolutely aware of people's interest in the character and the expectations for each finale to have her in it. They clearly know people have interest in the character, but I don't know if they really do think there are expectations for her to be turning up in every finale. As to why they won't give a definitive answer, I have no idea. Given the total lack of information on that point I don't think I can really speculate. There is entire team behind them, which I assume has responsibilities of double checking, fact checking etc. If they do not know the nickname that is them being unprofessional, just as if you and me didn't know things in out jobs. Am I suppose to sit here and think 'oh poor D&D and their team cannot remember it all"? This is not gonna happen. |
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