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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:57:25 GMT
What does being born king have to do with it? King's blood is having the blood of a king. Whether Robb was born or declared a king is irrelevant, he was a king. Let's take this further: was Stannis born a king, Was his father a king? No, he proclaimed himself king because his brother (also not born a king) was king and he, by right, is his brother's true heir and therefore king. Rob was his BROTHER (half Brother) not his Father! Jon wasn't born of Robb Stark as a king - how can that possibly count? How can that not be a major a leap to assume the audience will buy the king's blood theory (with ZERO R+L=J knowledge) for Jon Snow? he's Ned Stark's bastard son. Period. PS: I'm a R+L=J enthusiast btw. I'm trying to help some of you see that the show can't make that leap for Jon unless Melisandre explains things a little better than "There's power in you..." Great hint for book fans, nothing for show fans. Is Stannis not the BROTHER of a king (form whom he derives his kingship), and yet he has king's blood in order to make shadow babies, which is what Mel was proposing to Jon. I really think you're overthinking this. What does being born king have to do with it? King's blood is having the blood of a king. Whether Robb was born or declared a king is irrelevant, he was a king. Let's take this further: was Stannis born a king, Was his father a king? No, he proclaimed himself king because his brother (also not born a king) was king and he, by right, is his brother's true heir and therefore king. Um, Melisandre doesn't see Stannis as just some king but as Azor Ahai. So his blood and his family's blood is special. No because someone said 'I am king' But he's king because of who his brother was, if he had been some average Jon noble I doubt Mel would have declared him AAR. It very much matter who he was and who he is connected to. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:57:34 GMT
Dude, no one's been insulting or rude, it's a great debate. Are you seriously trying to close it down? That's not what this forum was for was it?  It's not, let's proceed. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:59:27 GMT
Dude, no one's been insulting or rude, it's a great debate. Are you seriously trying to close it down? That's not what this forum was for was it? |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:59:50 GMT
This is taking an awful long walk in order to pretend like the scene isn't hinting at something big down the road for Jon (which will obviously be the case). Pretty much this. The scene hinted at something important, something the Unsullied should take notice. When it is revealed the Unsullied won't be surprise or think it's coming out of left field because of scenes like these. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 19:00:20 GMT
Rob was his BROTHER (half Brother) not his Father! Jon wasn't born of Robb Stark as a king - how can that possibly count? How can that not be a major a leap to assume the audience will buy the king's blood theory (with ZERO R+L=J knowledge) for Jon Snow? he's Ned Stark's bastard son. Period. PS: I'm a R+L=J enthusiast btw. I'm trying to help some of you see that the show can't make that leap for Jon unless Melisandre explains things a little better than "There's power in you..." Great hint for book fans, nothing for show fans. Is Stannis not the BROTHER of a king (form whom he derives his kingship), and yet he has king's blood in order to make shadow babies, which is what Mel was proposing to Jon. I really think you're overthinking this. Um, Melisandre doesn't see Stannis as just some king but as Azor Ahai. So his blood and his family's blood is special. No because someone said 'I am king' But he's king because of who his brother was, if he had been some average Jon noble I doubt Mel would have declared him AAR. It very much matter who he was and who he is connected to. But the issue is that we were led to believe, from the show, that the blood of one true king can make shadows, not just any king |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:01:03 GMT
Rob was his BROTHER (half Brother) not his Father! Jon wasn't born of Robb Stark as a king - how can that possibly count? How can that not be a major a leap to assume the audience will buy the king's blood theory (with ZERO R+L=J knowledge) for Jon Snow? he's Ned Stark's bastard son. Period. PS: I'm a R+L=J enthusiast btw. I'm trying to help some of you see that the show can't make that leap for Jon unless Melisandre explains things a little better than "There's power in you..." Great hint for book fans, nothing for show fans. I really think you're overthinking this. Um, Melisandre doesn't see Stannis as just some king but as Azor Ahai. So his blood and his family's blood is special. No because someone said 'I am king' But he's king because of who his brother was, if he had been some average Jon noble I doubt Mel would have declared him AAR. It very much matter who he was and who he is connected to. Ok - I'll actually buy that argument. She's considering Stannis more than just king's blood (Azor Ahai) but I get your point. There's a lot of holes in Melisandre's business but hey, her visions are not always correct anyways (rider on dying horse was not Arya). I'm just gonna stick to my guns that without any Tower of Joy references or backstory, the R+L=J theory for the show, is very weak at this point. Yes they are setting it up with lots of book hints. I'm happy about that! |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:01:26 GMT
Dude, no one's been insulting or rude, it's a great debate. Are you seriously trying to close it down? That's not what this forum was for was it? You're right. It's just our opinions and unless we have an Unsullied lying around we really are just speculating. I'll leave it be and just wait and see. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 19:01:45 GMT
Dude, no one's been insulting or rude, it's a great debate. Are you seriously trying to close it down? That's not what this forum was for was it? |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:05:00 GMT
[MOD] I'm not a 'Dude,' thanks. I didn't say anyone was being insulting or rude. And I'm not closing anything down--I'm saying everybody's had their say on the subject and are now beginning to go in circles. Sorry, I was using "Dude" in a joking way - I know you're female (as am I) from other posts and your profile! It was to try and lighten up the moment. I'll bow out of the discussion now because I don't want anyone getting mad. I think the debate was really good and so long as everyone was participating without getting insulting (which unfortunately happens on that other forum a lot) I think it was fine to keep it going and wasn't talking circles unless everyone talking agreed it was. Sorry. It's been nice to have a less populated place to discuss things in detail without all the clutter and noise of a bigger forum.  |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 19:08:37 GMT
ADMIN: We have not have our say, it's very much in progress. Don't get so defensive towards members. It's not the discussion you and I should be having here. Sorry, I was using "Dude" in a joking way - I know you're female (as am I) from other posts and your profile! It was to try and lighten up the moment. I'll bow out of the discussion now because I don't want anyone getting mad. I think the debate was really good and so long as everyone was participating without getting insulting (which unfortunately happens on that other forum a lot) I think it was fine to keep it going and wasn't talking circles unless everyone talking agreed it was. Sorry. It's been nice to have a less populated place to discuss things in detail without all the clutter and noise of a bigger forum. You have nothing to apologize for. But iheartseverus just quit from being a moderator leaving me on my own so I guess we need a volunteer to help me run this place now. |
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Post by Nezzer on May 5, 2015 19:10:26 GMT
You guys and gals need to chill out.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:11:44 GMT
Oh I've missed a lot >.< Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate. No one is going to agree all the time, and as long as people don't get personal then I don't see an issue  |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:22:05 GMT
What does being born king have to do with it? King's blood is having the blood of a king. Whether Robb was born or declared a king is irrelevant, he was a king. Let's take this further: was Stannis born a king, Was his father a king? No, he proclaimed himself king because his brother (also not born a king) was king and he, by right, is his brother's true heir and therefore king. Mel has never been consistent about King's blood (in the books and on the show). It's kept purposely vague so that it can apply to the characters the author and showrunners want it to. Trying to apply rules to it is counterproductive because you're using your interpretation as opposed to anything that's been laid out on the show or the books. "There's power in King's blood" is as much explanation as we've gotten and will probably ever get. There is enough information and rules laid out in the books but not on the show. Not being consistent is just a flimsy excuse for really bad writing. Interestingly, Mel has never called Stannis Azor Ahai in the show. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 19:23:46 GMT
Um, Melisandre doesn't see Stannis as just some king but as Azor Ahai. So his blood and his family's blood is special. No because someone said 'I am king'There is enough information and rules laid out in the books but not on the show. Not being consistent is just a flimsy excuse for really bad writing. Interestingly, Mel has never called Stannis Azor Ahai in the show. Wasn't there something in 2x01 in the beach scene? |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:25:20 GMT
Interestingly, Mel has never called Stannis Azor Ahai in the show. Wasn't there something in 2x01 in the beach scene? That's literally the only remotely AAR reference on the show that I remember  I don't know if there has been anything since though. |
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Post by King Tommen on May 5, 2015 19:28:36 GMT
Once D&D realized that there's probably not a whole lot to the Azor Ahai stuff (outside of temporarily motivating Mel to stand with Stannis) then they probably jettisoned all of it. Having her give a more vague "the flames say you're the guy" is easier to run with, especially if it comes out that she's not right.
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 19:31:51 GMT
Once D&D realized that there's probably not a whole lot to the Azor Ahai stuff (outside of temporarily motivating Mel to stand with Stannis) then they probably jettisoned all of it. Having her give a more vague "the flames say you're the guy" is easier to run with, especially if it comes out that she's not right. True, but hey, a little bit of that beach scene with flaming sword in 'previously on' would go a long way |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:43:09 GMT
Interestingly, Mel has never called Stannis Azor Ahai in the show. Wasn't there something in 2x01 in the beach scene? I think she called him the Warrior of Light in that episode, but has never said Azor Ahai or explained the prophecy. She mostly just calls him the One True King. Stannis spoke of a vision he saw in the flames, a great battle in the snow, but they don't seem too concerned about the threat of the Others this year. Davos even suggested Jon get into the politics and implied that guarding the realm of men didn't necessarily mean at the Wall. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 19:47:23 GMT
Wasn't there something in 2x01 in the beach scene? I think she called him the Warrior of Light in that episode, but has never said Azor Ahai or explained the prophecy. She mostly just calls him the One True King. Stannis spoke of a vision he saw in the flames, a great battle in the snow, but they don't seem too concerned about the threat of the Others this year. Davos even suggested Jon get into the politics and implied that guarding the realm of men didn't necessarily mean at the Wall. Well isn't the Others big scene this year in 508? They probably won't be mentioned until then. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 19:55:44 GMT
Wasn't there something in 2x01 in the beach scene? I think she called him the Warrior of Light in that episode, but has never said Azor Ahai or explained the prophecy. She mostly just calls him the One True King. Stannis spoke of a vision he saw in the flames, a great battle in the snow, but they don't seem too concerned about the threat of the Others this year. Davos even suggested Jon get into the politics and implied that guarding the realm of men didn't necessarily mean at the Wall. This is one of the reasons why I didn't read the books like I always do before new season this year. Because it's getting me to the point of paranoia trying to figure what was on the show and what was just in the books |
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I don't know if there has been anything since though. 