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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:38:04 GMT
I wonder if Mel would have banged Joffrey ... did he count as having king's blood?  Apparently yes  "Then he kidnapped Lyanna and raped her." "OH DID HE??" Tourney at Harrenhall story, Stannis telling Selyse that Ned wasn't the kind of guy to bang a tavern wench, everyone on the show talking about Rhaegar or Lyanna whenever they get a chance.... Mel telling Jon that they could create a shadow baby would seem to align well with all of this... So considering most of the audience are people who never read the books and I assume in large part are not familiar with the most popular theory about them you guys see those as hints? Because imho these are vague nods to yet unproved theory among the book readers, not the general audience of the show. |
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Post by King Tommen on May 5, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
Being a usurper doesn't mean that he wasn't king, it means that he took someone else's place. So, yes Mel killed a king who too her king's place. She wants to burn Mance and use his baby because of the King's blood. Are they supposed to be related to Stannis too? |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:41:19 GMT
Tourney at Harrenhall story, Stannis telling Selyse that Ned wasn't the kind of guy to bang a tavern wench, everyone on the show talking about Rhaegar or Lyanna whenever they get a chance.... Mel telling Jon that they could create a shadow baby would seem to align well with all of this... Does it? You're saying this because you read the books and you've read R+L=J theories like the rest of us and made the connection. You have to put aside those things as knowledge and analyze the scene without the dramatic irony of already knowing what the character in the scene does not. Did they do a good job of explaining why she wants to bang Jon? I guess most people here do think so but I think that's because you're already informed and so all those clues you listed out were anvils. To the general viewer they were not. I'll bet if we could do some sort of poll or survey about what all those things meant, especially the convo about Rhaegar and Lyanna at the tourney story from Littlefinger, None would connect that to Jon Snow, how could they possibly, there's been NO TOWER OF JOY scene or even a mention of it from Ned Stark! |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:41:49 GMT
She wants to burn Mance and use his baby because of the King's blood. Are they supposed to be related to Stannis too? You're talking about the book. This is the show discussion. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:43:20 GMT
Being a usurper doesn't mean that he wasn't king, it means that he took someone else's place. So, yes Mel killed a king who too her king's place. And yet she thought that Mance's kid had king's blood (in the books). I'm not saying she's always logical but it's there. And for show only viewers Robb was king so her saying there is power in Jon's blood and tying that with the Gendry having king's blood is not a huge leap. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:44:31 GMT
Tourney at Harrenhall story, Stannis telling Selyse that Ned wasn't the kind of guy to bang a tavern wench, everyone on the show talking about Rhaegar or Lyanna whenever they get a chance.... Mel telling Jon that they could create a shadow baby would seem to align well with all of this... Does it? You're saying this because you read the books and you've read R+L=J theories like the rest of us and made the connection. You have to put aside those things as knowledge and analyze the scene without the dramatic irony of already knowing what the character in the scene does not. Did they do a good job of explaining why she wants to bang Jon? I guess most people here do think so but I think that's because you're already informed and so all those clues you listed out were anvils. To the general viewer they were not. I'll bet if we could do some sort of poll or survey about what all those things meant, especially the convo about Rhaegar and Lyanna at the tourney story from Littlefinger, None would connect that to Jon Snow, how could they possibly, there's been NO TOWER OF JOY scene or even a mention of it from Ned Stark! Exactly. I like defending show when there is at least a vague possibility someone just watching the show gets something but this is just bad, bad writing. You cannot substitute adaptation with bits from the book and theories for something to make sense, it should work on its own and that scene doesn't, worse yet it's just another boob show from Melisandre, a scene that could have been used to provide the missing info from the show instead of whatever vague crap it turned out to be. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:44:59 GMT
I wonder if Mel would have banged Joffrey ... did he count as having king's blood? Apparently yes "Then he kidnapped Lyanna and raped her." "OH DID HE??" Tourney at Harrenhall story, Stannis telling Selyse that Ned wasn't the kind of guy to bang a tavern wench, everyone on the show talking about Rhaegar or Lyanna whenever they get a chance.... Mel telling Jon that they could create a shadow baby would seem to align well with all of this... So considering most of the audience are people who never read the books and I assume in large part are not familiar with the most popular theory about them you guys see those as hints? Because imho these are vague nods to yet unproved theory among the book readers, not the general audience of the show. The seduction itself plays as a hint. It's not inconsistent writing, it's up to the viewer to pay attention. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:46:05 GMT
And yet she thought that Mance's kid had king's blood (in the books). I'm not saying she's always logical but it's there. And for show only viewers Robb was king so her saying there is power in Jon's blood and tying that with the Gendry having king's blood is not a huge leap. But wasn't Robb proclaimed king, not born king? I'd agree with you if we were talking about Robb's kid, not someone born years before someone was proclaimed a king... |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:47:17 GMT
Apparently yes So considering most of the audience are people who never read the books and I assume in large part are not familiar with the most popular theory about them you guys see those as hints? Because imho these are vague nods to yet unproved theory among the book readers, not the general audience of the show. The seduction itself plays as a hint. It's not inconsistent writing, it's up to the viewer to pay attention. It's one thing to pay attention. It's another to wonder why people don't get something when there is a blank card in front of them and they are blindfolded. Or in this case boobs and confused Snow. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:47:34 GMT
And yet she thought that Mance's kid had king's blood (in the books). I'm not saying she's always logical but it's there. And for show only viewers Robb was king so her saying there is power in Jon's blood and tying that with the Gendry having king's blood is not a huge leap. Except you're missing something really important here ... in the show, it's revealed by direct scenes (several of them) that Gendry was Robert Baratheon's son so that was well known and obvious whereas there's been absolutely nothing to indicate Jon Snow is anything more than Ned Stark's bastard. It's a leap and the only reason y'all keep arguing it's not is because you had a ton more information from the books (Tower of Joy) than the show viewer does. Edit: Also, because Robb Snow was declared King in the North does not mean Jon Snow is also king's blood, he's not Robb Stark's kid he's Ned Stark's kid and Ned Stark was never a king! |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:48:57 GMT
And yet she thought that Mance's kid had king's blood (in the books). I'm not saying she's always logical but it's there. And for show only viewers Robb was king so her saying there is power in Jon's blood and tying that with the Gendry having king's blood is not a huge leap. But wasn't Robb proclaimed king, not born king? I'd agree with you if we were talking about Robb's kid, not someone born years before someone was proclaimed a king... What does being born king have to do with it? King's blood is having the blood of a king. Whether Robb was born or declared a king is irrelevant, he was a king. Let's take this further: was Stannis born a king, Was his father a king? No, he proclaimed himself king because his brother (also not born a king) was king and he, by right, is his brother's true heir and therefore king. |
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Post by King Tommen on May 5, 2015 18:49:47 GMT
Mel has never been consistent about King's blood (in the books and on the show). It's kept purposely vague so that it can apply to the characters the author and showrunners want it to.
Trying to apply rules to it is counterproductive because you're using your interpretation as opposed to anything that's been laid out on the show or the books.
"There's power in King's blood" is as much explanation as we've gotten and will probably ever get.
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:50:17 GMT
And yet she thought that Mance's kid had king's blood (in the books). I'm not saying she's always logical but it's there. And for show only viewers Robb was king so her saying there is power in Jon's blood and tying that with the Gendry having king's blood is not a huge leap. Except you're missing something really important here ... in the show, it's revealed by direct scenes (several of them) that Gendry was Robert Baratheon's son so that was well known and obvious whereas there's been absolutely nothing to indicate Jon Snow is anything more than Ned Stark's bastard. It's a leap and the only reason y'all keep arguing it's not is because you had a ton more information from the books (Tower of Joy) than the show viewer does. Yep. Not one scene in the show shows there is something special about the blood of someone else's other than the Baratheons. So unless Robert and Ned banged and Jon magically appeared I don't know how poor show only audience is suppose to understand anything. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:50:19 GMT
And yet she thought that Mance's kid had king's blood (in the books). I'm not saying she's always logical but it's there. And for show only viewers Robb was king so her saying there is power in Jon's blood and tying that with the Gendry having king's blood is not a huge leap. Except you're missing something really important here ... in the show, it's revealed by direct scenes (several of them) that Gendry was Robert Baratheon's son so that was well known and obvious whereas there's been absolutely nothing to indicate Jon Snow is anything more than Ned Stark's bastard. It's a leap and the only reason y'all keep arguing it's not is because you had a ton more information from the books (Tower of Joy) than the show viewer does. Does the show only audience know that Robb was king? Of course they do, and whether or not he is a bastard he was still Robb's brother. It's really not that huge of a leap. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:52:05 GMT
But wasn't Robb proclaimed king, not born king? I'd agree with you if we were talking about Robb's kid, not someone born years before someone was proclaimed a king... What does being born king have to do with it? King's blood is having the blood of a king. Whether Robb was born or declared a king is irrelevant, he was a king. Let's take this further: was Stannis born a king, Was his father a king? No, he proclaimed himself king because his brother (also not born a king) was king and he, by right, is his brother's true heir and therefore king. Rob was his BROTHER (half Brother) not his Father! Jon wasn't born of Robb Stark as a king - how can that possibly count? How can that not be a major a leap to assume the audience will buy the king's blood theory (with ZERO R+L=J knowledge) for Jon Snow? he's Ned Stark's bastard son. Period. PS: I'm a R+L=J enthusiast btw. I'm trying to help some of you see that the show can't make that leap for Jon unless Melisandre explains things a little better than "There's power in you..." Great hint for book fans, nothing for show fans. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:52:38 GMT
But wasn't Robb proclaimed king, not born king? I'd agree with you if we were talking about Robb's kid, not someone born years before someone was proclaimed a king... What does being born king have to do with it? King's blood is having the blood of a king. Whether Robb was born or declared a king is irrelevant, he was a king. Let's take this further: was Stannis born a king, Was his father a king? No, he proclaimed himself king because his brother (also not born a king) was king and he, by right, is his brother's true heir and therefore king. Um, Melisandre doesn't see Stannis as just some king but as Azor Ahai. So his blood and his family's blood is special. No because someone said 'I am king' Mel has never been consistent about King's blood (in the books and on the show). It's kept purposely vague so that it can apply to the characters the author and showrunners want it to. Trying to apply rules to it is counterproductive because you're using your interpretation as opposed to anything that's been laid out on the show or the books. "There's power in King's blood" is as much explanation as we've gotten and will probably ever get. There is enough information and rules laid out in the books but not on the show. Not being consistent is just a flimsy excuse for really bad writing. |
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Post by Admin on May 5, 2015 18:54:06 GMT
Except you're missing something really important here ... in the show, it's revealed by direct scenes (several of them) that Gendry was Robert Baratheon's son so that was well known and obvious whereas there's been absolutely nothing to indicate Jon Snow is anything more than Ned Stark's bastard. It's a leap and the only reason y'all keep arguing it's not is because you had a ton more information from the books (Tower of Joy) than the show viewer does. Does the show only audience know that Robb was king? Of course they do, and whether or not he is a bastard he was still Robb's brother. It's really not that huge of a leap. So I assume the audience should wonder now why Melisandre didn't make some 'shadows' with Mance or Renly when she had the chance. I mean after all they were kings too, so it seems. |
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:55:02 GMT
[MOD} Folks, this discussion is going around in circles by now. Everybody's had their say on the topic. How about if we move along now.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2015 18:56:44 GMT
Dude, no one's been insulting or rude, it's a great debate. Are you seriously trying to close it down? That's not what this forum was for was it?  |
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Post by King Tommen on May 5, 2015 18:56:58 GMT
This is taking an awful long walk in order to pretend like the scene isn't hinting at something big down the road for Jon (which will obviously be the case).
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