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Post by day dreamer on Oct 21, 2022 21:00:22 GMT
Welp, the episode has leaked and clips are all over r/freefolk.
It's going to be insane.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Oct 24, 2022 15:13:59 GMT
I loved this episode so much. I'll need to write more later on. This was the perfect place to end the season, and was executed so well.
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Post by kingeomer on Oct 25, 2022 18:16:50 GMT
I stayed off of anything GOT and HOTD related Sunday and Monday. Hubby had to work Sunday night for Phillies celebrations and we couldn’t watch it then.
Watched last night. Good end to the season. Aemond’s really big whoopsie is going to start the war. How do you explain that one away? Ewan Mitchell is doing a great job as Aemond (out of the young adult actors of Aegon, Helena, Jace, and Luke…he’s standing out the most. Not because of the eye patch, the fact he’s much taller than them and looks older either)
Rhaneyra…Rhanerya…how you gonna send them boys over to Lords whose fathers made the promise to honor your succession with no terms, deals, etc???
Daemon is an ass but he’s getting his war.
If this show has no more birthing scenes, I’ll be okay with that.
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Post by day dreamer on Oct 25, 2022 21:34:58 GMT
I thought it was a great finale.
I like the "change" of Aemond losing control of Vhagar. It calls back to Viseryes saying Dragons cannot be controlled and even back to Dany saying dragons are no slaves. Lucerys' death was so sad. That kid was so sweet and I loved his scenes with Rhaenyra.
I'm perplexed at the people surprised Daemon choked Rhaenyra though, did they forget his divorce rock from a few episodes back?
I'm excited for the full on war next season. I'm curious how long it will go though. I feel like they probably shouldn't stretch it into 2 more seasons, but they might?
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Post by Father of Dragons on Oct 26, 2022 13:14:51 GMT
Having sat on it a bit now, I still think this episode delivered everything I wanted and then some. It feels hasty to say but this is easily my favourite episode of the season. Being honest this maybe eclipsed most of GoT for me, I certainly don’t remember enjoying any episode this much. There were so many great moments, the coronation in particular is up there for me as a highlight – surprise surprise Ramin Djawadi again knocking it out of the park. I love the contrast of the spontaneity here against all the polish and preparation that went into Aegon’s. Good job to the writers and actor for getting me to care about Luke despite really only being in 2 episodes; having him feel unworthy of Driftmark is a really interesting take, and his scene with Rhaenyra was very sweet. Love the Vermithor moment though it kinda felt like it was a scene made for trailers rather than this season. I also enjoyed all the Black Council scenes though it does just make me sad that the Green Council was so underwhelming in comparison. Maybe they just needed a more interesting table. Other random thoughts: - Finally an acknowledgement and appearance of House Celtigar.
- Love the attention drawn to the Kingsguard – far cry from GoT S1E10 with its 10 Kingsguard members.
- Will Daemon meet the muppet Tullys in season 2??
Some quick things I didn’t like: I agree with the overabundance of difficult pregnancies. I suppose that’s more on GRRM than anyone, regardless they're always very difficult to watch. Secondly: Baela and Rhaena are glorified background characters and I really wish they had more to do - they’re even in the main cast! After GoT cut out most of the characters of colour I appreciated that they went a different route with the Velaryons on HotD, but really only Corlys and Laenor have had anything to do, and I think that’s a shame. I wouldn’t mind if they added more for these characters in future. Also I suppose I’ll have to wait and see how they handle Addam and Alyn. Storm’s End - what do I have to say? Not only did they perfectly adapt the book sequence, but I think they even improved on it. One of my major issues with ASOIAF/GoT is that the “bad guys” (meaning Joffrey, Ramsay, Euron) frequently get away with whatever they want with no consequence while the “good guys” are usually punished either for good deeds or for things not even in their control. The bad guys always have 10 victories for each defeat. Book Aemond is much in the same vein to me: an obvious supervillain with no remorse and little depth, albeit entertaining. Show Aemond is being taken in a different - and imo much more interesting - direction. The entertainment factor remains, because Ewan Mitchell oozes charisma and steals any scene he’s in (and he’s only been in 3 episodes!), but making the death of Luke be unintentional is such a good change. Now it’s not an unambiguous bad guy getting away with whatever he wants, but it’s a consequence of his actions and his arrogance that is also totally in line with his character (demonstrated in ep8 when he provokes the Velaryon boys for no reason beyond trolling). Also I thought they wouldn't include the sapphire eye but they did and it looks cool as shit. Going into this show I had two benchmarks for my enjoyment: how they handle Storm’s End and the God’s Eye. They’ve far exceeded my expectations for the first, and if they smash the second as well, they can do whatever they want as far as I’m concerned. Lastly: Emma D’Arcy. I appreciate that last episode was Olivia Cooke’s time to shine, but I think she sadly got a bit lost amongst all the “Where’s Aegon?” hijinks. Fortunately, that is not the case for Emma D’Arcy, who worked like a fucking powerhouse and carried this episode on their back. Enid earlier described their performance as hypnotic, and there’s definitely something to that because I cannot take my eyes away when they’re onscreen. Phenomenal. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on Oct 26, 2022 13:19:24 GMT
I thought it was a great finale. I like the "change" of Aemond losing control of Vhagar. It calls back to Viseryes saying Dragons cannot be controlled and even back to Dany saying dragons are no slaves. Lucerys' death was so sad. That kid was so sweet and I loved his scenes with Rhaenyra. I'm perplexed at the people surprised Daemon choked Rhaenyra though, did they forget his divorce rock from a few episodes back? I'm excited for the full on war next season. I'm curious how long it will go though. I feel like they probably shouldn't stretch it into 2 more seasons, but they might? Admittedly I'm much better at remembering the setup to the Dance than the actual war, but I think 3 seasons would be the minimum with a preference for 4. Depends where they choose to end the story as well.
In terms of finales I would think S2: Rhaenyra takes KL, S3: Gods Eye/Riot, S4: Aegon III/Hour of the Wolf? Again can't remember quite how that all fits and whether events would need to be moved about, but I think they'll manage to pace the next seasons better now that all the time jumps are over. |
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Oct 28, 2022 4:39:53 GMT
Rhaneyra…Rhanerya…how you gonna send them boys over to Lords whose fathers made the promise to honor your succession with no terms, deals, etc??? that is the real failure, that luke didn't understand the real powers of a royal envoy and rhaenyra did not explain it to him. if all she wanted was a messenger she could have stuck with ravens. the correct response would have been "i'm betrothed, but my brother prince joffrey is still unclaimed if you don't mind waiting a few years. and my mother would surely honor you in other ways if you'd name a reasonable price." but luke was too young and inexperienced and too intimidated by aemond to think that way. a 14/15 boy can send his mother as envoy like robb did with cat to the freys and renly, and she'll understand how to negotiate without set instructions. the other way around, with a mother sending a 14yo son with no set instructions, that's not such a great idea. it occurs to me that luke is unique among all the second sons in this story. otto, larys, daemon, vaemond, and aemond were all born with no inheritance and grasped for all the power they could claim. lucerys actually was an heir since his elder brother had an even higher claim, yet he didn't even want his birthright! and he was doomed by trying to be too dutiful and not thinking too much for himself as a true independent-minded second son would have. even if he'd just fled as soon as he saw vhagar and reported the baratheons had already gone to the other side, rhaenyra wouldn't have held it against him. - Will Daemon meet the muppet Tullys in season 2??
he fucking better! and i don't want any of them cut either. i need to meet grover, elmo, kermit, and oscar. (i will accept human actors playing them tho.) trying to count all the scene parallels/callbacks since there were A LOT: - rhaenyra's last and worst childbirth calls back to her mother's. as that scene cut back and forth with knights playing at war/screaming in rage and pain and daemon fighting for the house of the dragon, this one cuts back and forth with daemon planning an actual war and rhaenyra's literal dragon screaming out in pain with her. the big difference being only the baby, not the mother, died this time.
- daemon arriving late to find his last child already dead parallels him catching up to laena too late to stop her suicide
- the baby's funeral/cremation parallels aemma/baby baelon's funeral/cremation
- rhaenyra's coronation/entering the painted table room as her titles were called out calls back to her first being named heir
- rhaena serving wine to her stepmother rhaenyra calls back to rhaenyra serving as cupbearer to her father viserys
- otto and daemon having a showdown on the dragonstone bridge with rhaenyra flying in on syrax calls back to their similar showdown in ep 2, with rhaenyra being the only one to stop bloodshed both times
- the page alicent sends is the one rhaenyra ripped from the book about nymeria in the pilot with ali apparently having saved it for 20+ years
- corlys/rhaenys's bedside convo reminds me of laenor/rhaenyra's last scene with the velaryon man apologizing and saying what he thinks his targ wife wants to hear, tho what he suggests couldn't last, and the targ wife basically responding "it's really too late to change now so we might as well just ...."
- daemon seeking out vermithor deep in the dragonmont calls back to aemond going into the dragon pit to find a dragon in ep 6. except that time knock-off daemon hadn't worked his courage up properly yet and had to run away.
- aemond bullying luke in storm's end calls back to the bracken bullying the bloodwood lordling there when we first saw storm's end. except that time blood was allowed to be spilled inside the hall and the smaller boy actually prevailed. in both cases, the animosity was long festering and had little to do with the prospective marriages being arranged at storm's end.
- rhaenyra ending the ep looking right into the camera parallels her doing the same in the last shot of the pilot, but with very diffeerent emotions on her face.
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Post by kingeomer on Oct 28, 2022 10:59:18 GMT
Father of Dragons, I agree about Emma D' Arcy. She's been fantastic as Rhanerya, especially in the last episode. I didn't read the books but I have to agree that having Aemond lose control over Vhager is better than the telling in the book.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Oct 29, 2022 23:58:53 GMT
I’m pretty sure that Dragonstone confrontation even had identical shots to the first scene, framed exactly the same way. Which does make sense as it has the same writer/director combo.
Interestingly as I was looking that up I realised that in one season HotD has had more female writers and directors than all 8 seasons of GoT. Which is not particularly surprising now that I think about it, and is also pretty embarrassing for GoT frankly. Not to say that GoT would inherently be better if that weren’t the case, but if nothing else they would have handled some moments much better (like say in HotD ep4 as pointed out previously). I didn’t realise it was quite so stark til now.
Speaking more generally I’ve found that the direction and the cinematography and such have really stood out compared to GoT. A lot of striking moments throughout.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Oct 30, 2022 20:52:56 GMT
Took a while to digest the series. Gave it a rewatch too. It's been really good so far.
I love how this series both sets up the idea at the beginning that only the Dragons really make Targaryens special, or give them any kind of power over the regular people, but also establishes that the Targaryens kind of don't have true control over these absolute monsters. That Vhagar Arrax fight was amazing, real tense from the chase through the storm to the ending. And that look on Aemond's face was everything. Oh, Storm's End looked incredible too. I don't think we got a proper view of it earlier in the show. Guess that explains why Mace preferred to feast rather than Siege...
I'm shocked that people are shocked Daemon is kind of an arsehole. That was always my impression of him from the book. He's impulsive, dismissive, and quickly grows bored with responsibility, just like he did with the Stepstones, his wife, his mistress, his other wife, his positions in King's Landing... For as much as he hated Otto, and people saw him as the man who Viserys should have trusted, he'd have made a terrible hand. Daemon cares about legacy, his family's legacy, and his own legacy. His true attitude is laid bare in that scene with Rhaenyra, and I'm so glad the showrunners included it. Daemon chooses the throne, violence and retribution over duty. Not that I hate Daemon, it's the total opposite, I really like him, and think Matt Smith is great in the role, but I just think people have totally the wrong idea about what Daemon is. Also, Daemon not knowing about the Song of Ice and Fire, cementing the fact Viserys never intended to make him his heir... Interesting.
I have genuine excitement about the next series. I think this show is definitely benefitting from the unreliable narration of the book. The idea that all of these events are the true history definitely put certain attitudes into perspective about the way the book is written. It's going to give people a lot to speculate about for the next series, rather than just complaining about the adaptation leaving things out. Refreshing.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Nov 1, 2022 4:47:55 GMT
I think this show is definitely benefitting from the unreliable narration of the book. The idea that all of these events are the true history definitely put certain attitudes into perspective about the way the book is written. It's going to give people a lot to speculate about for the next series, rather than just complaining about the adaptation leaving things out. Refreshing. yeah, there are actual adaptation changes, mostly chronological, but it seems like what gets fans riled up the most is the stuff that could never be certain in the text. nobody can say for sure what viserys would or wouldn't say to alicent or rhaenyra in private with no witnesses. or what aemond's true intentions were that many feet in the air above any witnesses. but ofc he'd embrace the kinslayer role afterward once he was stuck with it, rather than admit he was being an idiot and lost control of the situation. i was watching one of the interview vids with grrm and one of the fan questions was if we should accept hot d's take as "the true story". his answer was basically "it's all made up. maester gyldayn isn't real, you know." eta: keep forgetting to mention that one detail i really enjoyed was hearing kingsguard or in this case, queensguard vows for the first time. love that extra worldbuilding how clear it was they cribbed from the night's watch with take no wife, hold no lands, father no children bits. |
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