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Post by TheMadQueen on Jul 18, 2017 17:51:11 GMT
In theory I like Arya's scene with the Lannisters because it was about getting her humanity back, but like Father of Dragons I cringed at the close ups of Sheeran that is bad fan service. Yeah. I also thought it was really badly written with clunky dialogue. Like they were hitting the audience over the head with AND THESE ARE PEOPLE TOO, GOOD PEOPLE, THEY JUST WANT TO FISH AND LOVE THEIR POPPAS M'KAY? Could have been done much better Cersei would have been the one to garrison dragonstone and she really should have. Didn't make much sense that it would be completely deserted but it didn't bother me that much. Euron's fleet literally sailed right past Dragonstone this episode. The fact that it was totally deserted by villagers, or Lannister soldiers, or Greyjoys, is pretty jarring. i said more in the rate the episode thread. But coming back to the Arya slaughtering the Freys scene, it just seemed so stupid and not at all about justice for the Red Wedding. Even if I accepted her logic that every male Frey was guilty by virtue of being a Frey (but the women aren't because reasons?) she then fails to heed her own advice and leaves the female Freys alive to take their own vengeance against her. Wtf? It was such a stupid scene an blatant fan servicing. Also, a question (not a critique, really, curious to hear what you all think): Sansa tells Brienne that LF is still there because they need his men (The Knights of the Vale). But...how much control does he really have over them? How authoritative is he? Never much got the impression they have a lot of respect for him, and the knights are there now, I doubt they would leave if LF was disgraced. I think this was probably explained in an earlier season but I've forgotten now - where is Sweetrobin? And who is he with? sweetrobin is just chilling in the vale, I think. LF has a lot of influence over the KotV bc he has influence over sweetrobin. SR does whatever he says. As the widower of the Lady of the Vale and the surrogate father of the Lord of the Vale, he's pretty much running it. He basically made Yohn Royce his bitch lol, and proved that he could take him out whenever he wanted. So he's in charge. |
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 18, 2017 18:19:13 GMT
Gay of Thrones is back
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jul 18, 2017 18:43:13 GMT
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jul 18, 2017 21:24:48 GMT
Ed Sheeran deleted his Twitter.  |
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Post by meeraoftarth on Jul 18, 2017 21:40:06 GMT
Okay so, my tuppence worth:  The Bad: 1./ Bran definitely needed a short second scene behind the wall in there somewhere, IMO. Felt weirdly incomplete with just that one scene of them letting him in, like they'd switched the immediate follow up to a later episode late in the edit. 2./ The argument LSH undermined the power of the red wedding is kind of made a nonsense of by the fact this whole chapter of the TV show ends with T-1000 Arya doing another M.I. face swap (and a huge note of magical realism, even for the rules of this magical universe, far exceeding a sentient zombie who has to work with outlaws, settling for hanging sad-sacks like Merrett from the sprawling Frey clan before she can dream of inflitrating the Twins.) Deus Ex Machina, rush-to-the-end storytelling you expect from Hollywood. The Freys rose to prominence in the show as an unsuspected threat; they take their leave a predictable joke. And forgetting Edmure in the midst of all this kinda pisses over everything they somehow clawed back for his character in S6.  3./ The rightly maligned Sheeran cameo was indeed the episode low, IMO, especially in view of how carefully G.O.T. has approached celebrity cameos in the past. Just a massively over-conspicuous mis-step, even if the basic idea of humanising Lannister infantrymen was well intentioned. This bunch were about as believable as Cersei’s soldiers as kindergarten kids in costume. 4./ Euron still underwhelms me. Shoo-in cartoon villian replacement for Ramsay but they could have had so much more nuance with a better actor than this guy doing his pissed up rockstar/Ollie Reed. 5./All in all, just that familiar problem peculiar to G.O.T. of repetition where it's not needed and skimping on detail where it IS. E.g: Precious little sense of Jaime wrestling with his sister having committed a similar(-ish) act upon a big chunk of King's Landing to the Mad King he stabbed in the back. And as others have said ~ why is Dragonstone un-garrisoned? (then again, better nowt than another like Ed Sheeran's nursery school contingent sent to man The Twins ...  )  The Good:
1./ All The Hound scenes were fantastic (esp. the "Who d’you think you’re fooling with that top-knot, bald cunt!” to Thoros.  )Great that they homaged the grave-digger, as well as bringing back the farmer subplot from season 4 full circle to establish Sandor experiencing the alien concept of guilt. Almost made me forgive the new BWB plot excising LSH. Almost ...
2./ Samwell's shit-montage be damned, Broadbent aced it at The Citadel. That line about the dog was class. 3./ Loved Jorah's "horror hand!" cameo from the medic cell and "Is she here yet? The Dragonqueen??" seguing so well into Dany’s silent arrival at Dragonstone. Episode highlight for me, tbh. Pitch perfect pacing. 4./ That beach in the basque region. Wow. Worth the grief they underwent with the paps for those gorgeous visuals alone. 5./Ah, the Dragonstone map table.  Almost makes you nostalgic for the more innocent times of Mel & Stannis getting their freak on and the sacrificial screams of Red God unbelievers wafting from the beach ... All in all, I'd say: 7.5/10. Decent episode, but wasn't blown away and it didn't feel a game-changer despite events with Dany's homecoming clearly having reached that point by the end. Pluses, minuses and length of later episodes aside, I think we’ve probably been fed a bit of a line re: everything feeling more movie-level-expensive per individual episode this year, etc. Bar that aerial exterior of Dragonstone, this felt pretty much like every other episode of Thrones to me, tbh ~ (very) high end TV, with rationed SFX shots, saving the bigger bucks for the last two eps. The difference this year is more that it's probably half and half, i.e: we'll undoubtedly get some cash-splash in episodes 2 & 4, before they hit 6 & 7 but other than that, IMO, it's not the every episode = MASSIVE kinda deal they hyped. Going by the premiere, 1,3 and 5 are all probably pretty standard.
I agree with all your points! I liked the beach scene in Dragonstone and the fact that they don't speak at all....the location is fabulous and the castle indoors...the nostalgia.... I loved Sam in the Citadel, although the montage was a bit oo long for my taste...and dirty. Bran, Meera and Ed was a very moving scene, but felt super short. Howver, I'd say that The Soldiers singing was something I liked, my only hope is that they stop trying to make Arya someone she isn't (by having cut LSH  ). I would add Jaime and Cersei's talk in the bad ones. The conversation made no sense at all. Why do they need the Tyrrells for food if they are already at war with them? Why does Cersei think of Tommen's betrayal when she is reminded of his death? Not the most appropiate comment....and the most important...why isn't Jaime ANGRY with Cersei at all? The only good thing about that scene is that it shows how the relationsip is sinking like the Titanic. |
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Post by Father of Dragons on Jul 18, 2017 22:16:40 GMT
I agree with all your points! I liked the beach scene in Dragonstone and the fact that they don't speak at all....the location is fabulous and the castle indoors...the nostalgia.... I loved Sam in the Citadel, although the montage was a bit oo long for my taste...and dirty. Bran, Meera and Ed was a very moving scene, but felt super short. Howver, I'd say that The Soldiers singing was something I liked, my only hope is that they stop trying to make Arya someone she isn't (by having cut LSH ). I would add Jaime and Cersei's talk in the bad ones. The conversation made no sense at all. Why do they need the Tyrrells for food if they are already at war with them? Why does Cersei think of Tommen's betrayal when she is reminded of his death? Not the most appropiate comment....and the most important...why isn't Jaime ANGRY with Cersei at all? The only good thing about that scene is that it shows how the relationsip is sinking like the Titanic. Pretty sure Jaime meant "Without the Tyrells, where are we gonna get food?" The Reach is the most fertile part of Westeros, and with winter on the way (because it doesn't seem like it's actually at KL yet) there's not a lot of options of where to get food from. As for the Tommen remark, Cersei is not mentally stable. She's not thinking rationally so I don't expect her to make appropriate comments. Blaming Tommen and accusing him of betraying her is just a way of dealing with her grief. I thought Jaime was pretty angry with Cersei. I think at this point he's still trying to be sympathetic to her as a grieving mother. Trying not to piss her off even more. Sure maybe he's not as angry as I would've expected but I think if Cersei continues to do crazy shit like allying with Euron then he'll eventually snap. |
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Post by Singer of Death on Jul 18, 2017 22:26:45 GMT
I don't think Jaime is going to break up with Cersei at that point. Sure, Jaime was horrified and definitely angry at what Cersei did to the citizens by blowing up the sept and killing hundreds of innocents. But i think that's only the turning point for Jaime to doubt Cersei and began to lose his affection for her. Remember last season, Jaime outrightly told Edmure that he only love Cersei and that he will kill anyone who crosses their path. However, it came to bit him in the ass when he realizes how destructive their relationship is after the sept scene.
Also, Cersei saying that Tommen betrayed her , she was referring to when Tommen disband the trial by combat, limiting her power to win with UnGregor, and abandoning her in favor of Marg.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jul 19, 2017 0:05:17 GMT
Lol when has Cersei ever been one to make appropriate comments?? She crazy.
Also I loved the gravedigging scene as others have said.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jul 19, 2017 0:24:27 GMT
Anybody that outlaws Trials By Combat is a traitor to justice.
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Hound Dog
Sweet Summer Child
Ghost is Azor Ahai.
Posts: 115 
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Post by Hound Dog on Jul 19, 2017 2:03:22 GMT
The rightly maligned Sheeran cameo was indeed the episode low, IMO, especially in view of how carefully G.O.T. has approached celebrity cameos in the past. Just a massively over-conspicuous mis-step, even if the basic idea of humanising Lannister infantrymen was well intentioned. This bunch were about as believable as Cersei’s soldiers as kindergarten kids in costume. Yes! I have nothing against Sheeran (I even like a couple of his songs), but that scene stood out like a sore thumb to me. I get that D&D were trying to get Arya to see that not all enemies are monsters, but the scene came across more as a "Hey, look, everybody! It's Ed Sheeran!" than an actual revelation. And the Lannister soldiers were a little TOO nice. I thought they were about to break out into Kumbaya. The rest of the show ranged from good to very good IMO. My favorite parts: I am thrilled with the Hound's character development and the fact that he's getting some scenes with substance now. I like that Sansa has grown a backbone and is standing up to Jon. I can see them clashing some, but I hope she doesn't end up betraying him. That would be out of character. She's grown colder, but she still (I hope) loves her family. Dany's landing on Dragonstone was perfect. Very emotional. And as much as I like Tyrion, I'm sort of grateful he didn't eat up this particular scene. And I love Lyanna Mormont more every time I see her. I still think she should be ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. |
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2017 2:41:16 GMT
Damorian how about the Jon and Sansa scenes? Some pretty good points raised in the last couple of pages. I really hope we see Sansa trying to win the Vale lords over this season. I hope that is how she destroys littlefinger. Littlefinger did win the trust of the Vale lords, but i think this can easily be overturned, Sansa can definitely win them back to her side at ANY time. I think Kings Landing is still quite far from Dragonstone, but the fact that there were no sightings of Dany's MASSIVE fleet is absolutely incredible LOL I guess theres just not enough time to include everything, but this is pretty important. Cersei is talking about the enemies in the North and the Tyrells but not this dragon lady? Also the Cersei and Jamie scene was weirdly out of place, didn't feel right to me. Jaime is rightly questioning her by saying "We have no one left to pass on the legacy to!", but it also seems like he has given up, offering Cersei no advice on how to survive the winter. Surprised Sam hasn't received word of Jon's death, i'm expecting that soon though when his bird arrives at the wall and Jon is not there. Your points about the Freys i think are quite valid, but i think she spared them for the same reason Jon spared the Karstark and Umber kids. Arya was obviously playing Walder Frey for a while, in order to gather them all there, so she must have gotten a gist of the people in the castle, she must have felt sorry for his wife.
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Post by Damorian on Jul 19, 2017 7:58:28 GMT
I enjoyed the Stark scenes for the most part, though aspects of the great hall scene played out like a greatest hits of the KITN declaration in The Winds of Winter episode, and therefore felt a shade too repetitious, e.g: Lyanna Mormont handing Lord Glover his balls again (great, but should've been a different Lord), or that carbon copy final shot of Littlefinger skulking in the shadows when Sansa didn't get her dues. Were it not for the inclusion of the two freshly cast heirs bending the knee, I'd have sworn they filmed this material with S6 and held it over, tbh. But I loved Kit's delivery of 'living' in: "The North must band together ... all the living North." Maybe the fact of her challenging him openly stretched credulity of how these things were done at court in medival society but that was the point I guess ... she broke with custom. The follow on convo between them felt reasonably earned - her urging him to think ten steps ahead, etc, even if we got another redux of "naive & noble Ned lost his head" etc. It's what Sansa would say having been at the heart of the KL machine so long, but I think we need more of a sense of LF adapting to his new role here (which is ...?) other than just hanging about in the shadows waiting to pounce like herpes or something. How does Jon perceive his purpose at Winterfell, going forward? The next couple of episodes will hopefully be crucial to determine how he reacts and behaves around Jon, whether he's playing a smart game, or is in his occasional subtle-as-a-brick mode he tends to lapse into around Starks like when he presented Cat with Ned's bones then blurted out words to the effect of: "So you and me, babe .. how about it?"Judging by the trailer shots we've all seen of that chokehold in the crypt, I'm guessing he starts whispering his poison pretty soon, pays Ned a snide, backhanded compliment before his statue, or else declares his intention of getting into Sansa's pants by way of reward for his role at the BOTB with the knights of the Vale, even though she made the call. But we shall see ... |
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Post by boojam on Jul 19, 2017 12:10:31 GMT
How does Jon perceive his purpose at Winterfell, going forward? The next couple of episodes will hopefully be crucial to determine how he reacts and behaves around Jon, whether he's playing a smart game, or is in his occasional subtle-as-a-brick mode he tends to lapse into around Starks like when he presented Cat with Ned's bones then blurted out words to the effect of: "So you and me, babe .. how about it?" From the end of season 6: You know lt'l Sam looked like a year older , events in KL looked like weeks, months?, events in the North looks like a day, a week a few weeks? later. I don't think it takes long to cross the Narrow Sea, so Dany's story is a week, few weeks? Time has seemed scrambled on the show , but did Arya keep Walder's face pickled for a year? FM have some powerful secret sauce. |
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Post by Damorian on Jul 19, 2017 13:06:09 GMT
Most characters in GOT seem to operate in timeframes either very close to one another or slightly out of whack. But with Arya inparticular, the basic plor armour, and general liberties with time & space re: the ludicrous logic of her face-swapping - even within the rulebook an established fantasy universe - tends to overuse transitional jumps to stonewall difficult story logic with a basic rule of thumb of, erm ... 'don't show it'. 1./ How & when does she learn the art of face-swapping from Jaqen when all we see is her sweeping and taking beatings with a stick? - Don't show it.  2./ How did she get back to The Riverlands in S6 just in time to nab a conveniently open job vacancy for the banquet at The Twins when the journey from Westeros to Braavos took her a small lifetime? - Don't show it. 3./ How/when did she lure Black Walder AND Lame Lothar (promise of a threesome??) consecutively to their deaths during said banquet, then infiltrate a presumably VERY busy kitchen to dice their corpses up unseen and undisturbed by anyone? - Don't show it. 4./ How come she announces that "every Frey that matters a damn thing" is present and two of the most important in the context of the RW back-slapping going on - Black Walder and Lothar - are not. More to the point, that not a single Frey present in that room even notices they're gone? - Don't show it. These issues aren't about being picky, looking for plotholes, or failing to suspend disbelief in the genre. They're about plain, cack-handed writing that's been bringing down the Arya storyline for two seasons now - sudden death OP faceswapping to inexplicable gut wound/parkour, you name it - so let's hope things improve a notch from here. Losing LSH doesn't mean I wan't D&D to fail with what replaces her (I'm on record above as stating the Beric/Hound stuff this week was great.) But it doesn't mean I want to see Arya marauding through this season and taking out big bads with superpower impunity either. Frankly, it pisses over everything I loved about her character's journey in the first four seasons, and if I didn't know something better was coming up next week I've waited for a long ol' time to happen in this show, I'd be just about ready to skip her parts of the story at this point.  |
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Post by Enid on Jul 19, 2017 13:21:22 GMT
There are time jumps in the show, they're very useful to let characters travel and do things off screen so we only see the relevant stuff. Travelogues are not really that interesting
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Post by Damorian on Jul 19, 2017 13:36:26 GMT
True. I'm trying to show how they overuse that priviledge in Arya's case to make the storytelling over-convenient and give her way too much power to achieve every objective with minimal fuss or difficulty.
How hard would it have been to have one Frey not be a moron, for example, and question why Black Walder and Lame Lothar were absent?
But no. They need their Marvel superhero wipeout moment.
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Post by Basil on Jul 19, 2017 20:50:28 GMT
The one Lannister soldier from the episode looked like this fanart of Osney Kettleblack.  |
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Post by Zadeth on Jul 19, 2017 23:31:53 GMT
The one Lannister soldier from the episode looked like this fanart of Osney Kettleblack. It has been bothering me for a few days as to why he looked familiar. Thanks for posting this. |
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Post by Singer of Death on Jul 20, 2017 1:09:32 GMT
The show do experiences weird coincidence of having their parts resemble to few fan-art somehow, like this one which came out a year before season 6: |
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Post by Singer of Death on Jul 20, 2017 15:40:47 GMT
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The Bad: 
)
The Good:
)Great that they homaged the grave-digger, as well as bringing back the farmer subplot from season 4 full circle to establish Sandor experiencing the alien concept of guilt. Almost made me forgive the new BWB plot excising LSH. Almost ...
Almost makes you nostalgic for the more innocent times of Mel & Stannis getting their freak on and the sacrificial screams of Red God unbelievers wafting from the beach ... 
). 
