|
Post by janicia on Jun 3, 2015 13:36:13 GMT
On the show, there is no letter from Cersei because he's supposed to be sneaking into Dorne and stealing Myrcella. The only time they would hear from him would be after he successfully (or unsuccessfully) leaves Dorne. He's currently a prisoner there so Doran obviously isn't going to allow him to get word to anyone about his whereabouts at least until they've had a chance to talk. When Cersei asks Qyburn if there's been any word from Jaime it's a "do we know what the hell is going on with him?" question. He has no idea what's going on with her and she has no idea what's going on with him. Ahh that makes sense. From the way Cersei asked Quburn, I assumed that Qyburn had sent a letter. But if Jaime's mission had been successful, he should be out of Dorne by now and back into communication.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 3, 2015 12:01:30 GMT
I'm hazy on how Cersei and Qyburn thought they could get Jaime a letter while he's supposed to be sneaking around in Dorne. Did they send a rider to gallop around in Dorne asking everybody if they've seen him? Or maybe they sent the letter to wherever it was he was supposed to go to after leaving Dorne (in that case he won't get the letter)? Or maybe they know that Jaime's been arrested by Doran so they knew where to send the letter, but they're entirely at Doran's mercy on whether/when Jaime is given the letter? I guess the last case is most likely - given that Doran is trying to avoid a war, he probably felt compelled to communicate honestly with the crown once he captured Jaime. If he isn't going to kill Jaime, he's not going to be able to hush up the arrest so best to come clean promptly? So Doran's letter to Cersei explaining the Jaime situation probably arrived between episodes 7 and 8?
But Doran is under no obligation to deliver Jaime's mail to him promptly. I agree that Jaime rejecting Cersei's letter was an important moment for him. And the show needs to set him on his next path unless he's just going to go back to Kings Landing. I think there is a decent chance that Jaime gets a letter from Cersei in the finale.
I wonder if Jaime ends up abandoning Cersei because he learns about her affair with Lancel from the charges brought against her.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 3, 2015 2:47:11 GMT
I wish Jon had of brought Olly along , would have straighten his thinking. (If he wasn't just straightened.) It really does seem like part of Jon's problem in the show is that so few men of the Night's Watch that witnessed the Fist of the First Men made it back to the Wall - too few really understand the magnitude of the White Walker problem. Thorne, in particular, could benefit from that perspective. Presumably the Watch will understand it better going forward - another handful of Night's Watch men have seen the army of the dead, and the crews on Stannis' ships also witnessed the events of Hardhome. So maybe people at the Wall will start taking these things more seriously. But it would have been cruel to drag Olly into a massive Free Folk settlement given how traumatized Olly was. And on a sensitive diplomatic mission, you probably don't want to bring a kid that is a loose cannon. And who knows, Tormund might try to kill Olly in revenge for Ygritte.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 18:19:51 GMT
I saw a costumes featurette for s4 where D and D or Michelle Clapton or someone explained that the WWs knew that Sam had killed one of them and that they were wearing armour now (in the 404 scene) to protect themselves against dragonglass. To bad for them, as Pycelle put it in ep. 402, "Nothing cuts like Valyrian steel." So it made short work not only of the WW in question but also his anti-dragonglass armour. That's cool! And that also kind of explains what the White Walkers might have been up to in between the Fist of the First men battle and Hardhome. It could have taken that long to make themselves a bunch of armor. I really like that there are only a few White Walkers and they seem to take each White Walker death seriously.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 17:44:37 GMT
But in Dany's defense, it is hard to show a character listening to advice without making them look weak. Tywin and Olenna never ask for / listen to advice. They're the smartest people in the room so they don't need advice, just updated intelligence reports. And it is boring to show a character going through a methodical decision making process.
We have the impression that Tywin, Olenna, Roose, Tyrion, and Varys think things through most of the time rather than making snap decisions. But the thinking process happens offscreen. And even Tywin made at least a few abrupt risky decisions like rescuing Arya, declaring war on the Riverlands to get Tyrion back, appointing Tyrion as Hand, and appointing Oberyn as a judge for Tyrion's trial. Varys made the abrupt decision to help Jaime rescue Tyrion, and then to get on the boat with Tyrion. Littlefinger seems to always be making abrupt decisions.
Dany isn't an outlier in the series for having a cavalier approach to decision making. It isn't even clear that the gut decision is a terrible way to go - people can overwhelm themselves with options or listen to too much advice and end up doing nothing or picking a cleverly terrible course.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 15:57:49 GMT
It's looking more and more likely, isn't it? I was still hoping for some warg action. I still don't know why people make this connection. So what just because Melisandre touched Beric she can bring people back? That basic bitch cannot even read her own visions right We had a couple of scenes of Tywin writing letters while talking to people as a power play. And then when Cersei came into power she immediately tried that trick and we recognized Tywin's influence. We had one scene of Ned cutting somebody's head off, but Ned's example is referenced anytime one of the kids he raised cuts somebody's head off. All of the kids have been influenced by their traveling companions and we see those influences in the kid's decisions and capabilities. We're supposed to be paying attention to the histories of these characters and remember their influences. Melissandre saw that a Red Priest was capable of doing something that she didn't think was possible. She was amazed. You don't think she's been thinking about that ever since? We saw that she wanted that power. Further, the Red Priests channel the power of the Red God. The power doesn't come from within them. So it is significant to learn that raising the dead is a power that the Red God has, a power that he might grant Melissandre.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 15:39:02 GMT
Question: if Stoneheart is out, what purpose was there in introducing the Brotherhood in the show? I'm not complaining, mind you. I loved the scenes with them at the Hound's trial, but in the narrative, what is their purpose? Was it to get Arya with the Hound? Was it to show us more of the Red God's power and that not every red priest(ess) thinks like Mel? Will the Brotherhood have a major part to play in the end war? Beric Dondarion does have a flaming sword... Well, if Melissandre resurrects Jon, the BWB stuff was set up for that. But also the BWB probably are going to do something big in book 6 against the Freys. If so, the show might pick up with them at that point.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 15:30:18 GMT
but it would be character assassination to divert Jon from the Wall after that Hardhome sequence. I thought we were rid of this term. Sorry. I know that phrase gets thrown around a lot lazily. I don't use it lightly or often, but I could have made my point without that phrase. Jon's decision to march on Winterfell in the books was a bad decision. But making that same decision in the context established by the show would be lunacy. Which is why the writers have been spending so much time setting up Olly's decision to murder Jon - Jon isn't going to do something stupid enough to provoke reasonable men into mutiny in the show. I think they're also softening Dany's abandonment of Mereen by having a lot of insurrectionists threaten her life rather than her just getting sick of all the BS. The show doesn't have as much time to get to the end as the books do, so these characters can't f*** up as badly at this point and still be redeemable as great leaders.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 15:14:38 GMT
Frankly, I don't see Jon breaking his vows for any family member after he saw what happened at Hardhome. Jon just saw an entire people brutally massacred and turned into an army of the dead in like 2 hours. He believes that he's basically the only thing protecting Westeros from that massive army of the undead. No way he's going to be distracted from that. He'll be sad for his sister, but it would be character assassination to divert Jon from the Wall after that Hardhome sequence.
Further, Jon has no army to lead to Winterfell in the show. He has a couple dozen able bodied men of the Night's Watch and a few hundred (ish?) traumatized Wildling refugees (that are probably disproportionately children and elderly). And one giant. If Stannis' 6000 were defeated already, Jon couldn't possibly think his meager forces would matter.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 15:00:15 GMT
Maybe it was just me and I have to watch it again but did anyone else think Dany accepted Tyrion too easily? Hello my family killed yours but I killed my father so we're even. Okay advise me! Wouldn't you not trust someone that killed their own father even less? I mean yeah she doesn't fully trust him yet but seemed kinda weird. But again maybe on rewatch it'll be different. I think it was in character for Dany. She often trusts her gut on these kinds of things. She abruptly made the decisions to bring Dario, Missandei, and MMD into her entourage based on brief encounters. She made abrupt decisions to sack Astapor, trust the Yunkish crowd, crucify the Meerenese nobility, work with Hizdahr, walk into Drogo's funeral pyre, and chain the dragons, often not seeking council. The truth is that Tyrion is a great asset to Dany. He doesn't have much of an ulterior agenda - he isn't going to try to make himself king, he doesn't want to kill Dany, they share a lot of political ideals, and they share a lot of overlap as far as enemies go. I don't see anything wrong with Dany recognizing as much.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 13:58:48 GMT
I could definitely see him bending the knee to Dany and loyally serving as member of her small council before being brutally murdered by a White Walker. Really? Aegon is incredibly cocky and has a vicious temper in the book. Have you forgotten him flipping the cyvasse board in a temper tantrum at Tyrion? I don't see him bending the knee at all. In fact it was that tantrum that made Tyrion wonder to himself if he wasn't really a Targaryen afterall. He's still a sheltered kid. Seeing war would grow him up quickly. Sansa, Bran, Jon, and all the other kids have all been growing from imperfect children into impressive adults. There is time in two books to mature Aegon up. Anyway, Dany doesn't mind cocky men with tempers. But sure, I think Aegon is probably toast.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 13:53:13 GMT
Tormund on Jon Snow "He's prettier than both my daughters" (rofl) Yeah, I love that Tormund clearly thinks Jon is utterly non-macho, but Tormund likes and respects Jon anyway.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 13:51:34 GMT
I liked Tormund saying "I'm not good at counting". I know it wasn't a quip, but I found it so funny and true to the character.
Also, I think indicative of Free Folk cultural priorities. Competent Westerosi leaders worry about numbers while competent Free Folk leaders just care about relationships. But at some point, you can't organize people to do great things if you don't count anything; that's part of why Mance rose so high among the Free Folk.
Dany taking Tyrion's wine away was another great little moment. Her court is a lot less boozy than Kings Landing. And Tyrion telling her "sometimes killing people isn't the same thing as politics".
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 13:27:32 GMT
One little thing that I liked about the episode was that Jon was doing solid diplomacy. He shifted to a Free Folk vocabulary to talk about the relationship between the Free Folk and the Crows. He swore because the Free Folk were swearing. He knew when to shut up and let others speak, but he also knew when to assert himself. He was brutally honest because he knew they'd never respect anything less. And the men of the Night's Watch were clearly taking their cues from Jon, from pretending that Tormund beating Rattleshirt to death was a normal part of diplomacy, to following Jon in the fight, to bringing the boat back for him. Those men were loyal to Jon that day because Jon was projecting leadership.
Jon's diplomatic skills would be poorer when dealing with Westerosi lords - he has rough edges and Stark bluntness that would be off-putting to people like the Tyrells. But it was so nice to see him get a few moments of competent leadership before it all goes off the rails.
I also liked that Jon has embraced his bastard status like Tyrion recommended back in season 1. Jon is boldly introducing himself as a Snow. He could just give a first name if he didn't want to draw attention to his bastard status, but he just doesn't care about that anymore. An eventual Jon / Tyrion reunion could be a sweet thing - Tyrion gave Jon good advice and Jon ended up taking it.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 13:09:01 GMT
This season has spent a fair amount of time building up Ollie as Jon's killer. But Ollie isn't part of some conspiracy - he's acting alone. Ollie clearly made the decision to kill Jon as a result of Sam's speech about having the courage to do what's right.
I think Thorne will air some more grievances in 5x09, but ultimately respect Jon's authority because Thorne is a good man of the Night's Watch at his core. And then Ollie will kill Jon in 5x10. Almost certainly with arrows instead of knives - no way Ollie could represent a threat to Jon in melee combat. Anyway, with all of the shooting of people in Jon's storyline, it feels kind of right that Jon be shot.
When Jon gets back to the Wall, Sam will immediately petition to go for maester training because Sam has realized that he and Gilly can't stay at the Wall. They'll get out in time. Edd, Thorne, and Tormund will be around when Jon dies and will participate in the wildling vs Night's Watchmen melee. I think there is a decent chance that Tormund will kill Thorne at that point - they exchanged a significant glare when Jon was setting out for Hardhome and Thorne is going to be a dick to the wildlings in 5x09.
I agree that Melissandre will revive Jon. Can't be Bran since he's not around. Shouldn't be warging since that hasn't been set up (and what on earth would the show do with Jon-trapped-in-a-wolf as a plot line?). Melissandre has been set up and just barely has time to get into place.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 12:38:36 GMT
The Karsi stuff worked really well. Varamyr could had a cool fight scene, but Karsi is arguably the best the show has ever done for a one episode character. They probably made the right choice in going with her. Her name barely matters, it was hardly emphasized. giving the Varamyr homage would have been weird since the character had absolutely nothing to do with Varamyr. I'm really wondering if Jon is ever going to warg. It has been broadly assumed that he will, but the show hasn't laid any groundwork for that this season. They've been carefully building up to the big Olly moments, but completely mum on Jon developing any warging ability. My guess is that whatever happens with Jon at the end of the season will be received pretty negatively on account of defying expectations. One way for Melissandre to end up back at the Wall would be for her to see Hardhome in her fire and decide that the Wall is more important than Stannis v. Winterfell. But another option is for Stannis to banish her over Shireen. The Stannis voice over in the premier was intended to imply that Stannis had decided to to with a "ends justify the means" approach, but I bet that was intentionally deceptive. About Jon, his warging ability has not even been hinted at on the show. Which is a sin because it should be. I think we will not see Jon warg or Arya. It's just going to be Bran. Oddly enough, the show laid more hints that Robb was a warg than the other Starks besides Bran. I do have to agree about Karsi, the actress was good and I wish they kept her around. Perhaps we will see Varymyr in another fashion next season? Were those really hints of warging, or were we just reading too much into Greywind appearances because we assumed there would be hints of warging? Did Greywind ever do anything in the show that an intelligent and devoted wolf wouldn't have? The show skipped Greywind's most impressive feats of navigating Robb's army through tricky terrain, Greywind warning Robb about the Red Wedding, and Greywind going on his own Red Wedding rampage. You are right, Varamyr could show up somewhere else. Most of the wildlings are dead at this point, but wargs have a survival advantage, so maybe he escaped. Or maybe he got onto the boats in time.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 0:27:56 GMT
When Dany's people revolt, Dany abandons her rule, and her dragons start wrecking havoc, won't that cause Tyrion to rethink his service to Dany? I could see him noping the heck out of that.
Or maybe he'll understand where she was coming from and help her adjust when she comes back? A reprise of the "I never said you were perfect" exchange?
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 2, 2015 0:17:51 GMT
Dorne is dumb. In the end it'll just be "We'll support Dany when she gets here!". Or something. This is probably true. I may be wrong here, but just before Dany gave her wheel speech, Tyrion rhymed off all the great houses and whether or not they were likely to support her claim and he conveniently ignored the Martells. I thought it made some sense that Tyrion started off by focusing on the houses that had been running the country. Dany cut him off - we don't know what he would have said about Dorne, the Vale, or anywhere else. I could also see Tyrion treading lightly in talking about Dorne and the Vale which are both antagonistic to him personally. He's presenting himself as a valuable asset - might not be the best time to explain that he recently got the prince of Dorne killed or his complicated relationships with Littlefinger and the Vale. Dany wouldn't know about Littlefinger anyway, and it isn't the time to explain the whole Vale situation to her. And the Greyjoys haven't mattered much at the national level in Tyrion's adult life, so why talk about them. So sure, there are story reasons why Tyrion wouldn't spoil Doran's, Euron's, and (potentially) Littlefinger's big declarations of alliance with Dany. But from the perspective of Kings Landing, if you ask "who have been the important houses in this story?" - you get Lannister, Baratheon, Stark, and Tyrell.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 1, 2015 21:29:01 GMT
But Melissandre does listen to guidance from a higher power. And at the end of book 5, she was no longer convinced that Stannis was the answer. The show could jump to that point by having Melissandre get the vision of Jon at Hardhome (and maybe she has premonition of "For the Watch"?) and realize that she's got the wrong savior. Special note to the bit I highlighted - you're spot on! In fact there's a short snippet of Mel in the promo for episode 9 that very much looks like she's just realized something terrible... she's looking up and turning to stare with almost fear at someone (Stannis?) and that's when I think she may be realizing her vision was WRONG and she's been going about her crusade entirely incorrectly. She's going to take off for the wall because she just saw what Jon saw at Hardhome. Now maybe Melisandre's tune will change and we won't hate her so much? I do think it is about time for Melissandre to show her power again. The white walkers hadn't done much since 3x01 and suddenly we got a massive show of force from them. The dragons haven't been useful since "Dracarys" (and that was mostly to show off - the only time they've actually been useful was killing the Qarth warlock), and we'll get a massive show of force from them next week. We haven't seen powerful Red Priest magic since season 3, and Melissandre hasn't done anything impressive since shadowbaby in season 2. Show us a Red Priest doing something big, either now or early in season 6. Bran will presumably start season 6 with a bang. ARon from the Baldmove Game of Thrones podcast has been saying that we shouldn't be seeing new kinds of magic at the end of the series, and I agree with him. The show should duke it out with stuff that has been introduced. So things like magical horns or new types of magical users shouldn't be popping up out of nowhere right at the end. I think giving a showcase to each of the important magical entities around the end of season 5 / beginning of season 6 is important in laying the groundwork for the final battles of the series. Maybe the end of season 5 isn't going to be Melissandre's moment. I hope it is, but I can live without it. But if she doesn't do much for the rest of the season, she'd better do something big at the start of season 6.
|
|
|
Post by janicia on Jun 1, 2015 21:09:29 GMT
This is an afterthought that occurred to me last night, then I forgot to post it. I just wanted to say that I am SO glad Ghost didn't go to Hardhome with Jon! Yeah! And glad that Edd actually survived! I thought he was dead for sure when that building went up in flames and Edd was nowhere to be seen.
|
|