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Post by Enid on Jun 18, 2016 9:53:29 GMT
I've also noticed he's trying to be funny which he never used to do. I liked him for his blandly analytic commentary. Humour he should leave the actually funny Aussie youtuber. From him it just seems forced. It was definitely his deadpan voice and analytical 'theory' crafting that got him popular, not these stupid reviews. He's not good at them like he is explaining the complicated backgrounds and theories of the books vs. show. He should stick to what he does best and stop trying to copy someone who is genuinely and naturally hilarious like Ozzy man. I've never been a fan of his, you can't imagine how glad I was to read these comments
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Jun 18, 2016 9:57:57 GMT
Damn, that may be the best this series...
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Post by breakfest on Jun 18, 2016 10:07:56 GMT
I thought Alt Shift X's criticisms were mostly well-explained even if I don't agree with all of them. The point about The Hound is a good one, I think, it's kind of problematic that The Hound just kills four guys so brutally yet it's kind of underplayed - even played for comedy, actually. Reddit, though, turns into a complete shitshow when something happens that the hivemind doesn't like. Mark Mylod is now a punching bag for them in the same way that Alex Graves was, and whilst Alex Graves clearly made himself look like a fool in interviews and such, he directed some of the best episodes of the show, which is conveniently forgotten. Criticism is obviously fine but it's ugly when you have an entire community snidely piling onto one person. I think a bunch of what he said was disingenuous. Especially the bit about GrrM's supposed non-violence when really GrrM objected to Vietnam specifically but is not a full-blown pacifist in all cases. He also didn't bother delving into why it's pretty clear that those guys Sandor killed were the ones responsible for the massacre of Ray's group, since those three dudes that threatened the community didn't act alone. Which since those were the guys responsible for killing a fuckton of innocents, is not the sort of violence that GrrM rejects in principle. And Sandor is still very plainly much more reflective than he ever was previously and his whole scene with Thoros and Beric was a reflection on his character development or rather the choice to join a community and its failure and then his possible future decision to now join the BWB. Alt Shift X didn't bother engaging with any of that and instead went with the reddit talking points and preaching to the choir. But I'm nowhere near as mad at Alt Shift X as I am at the redditors for the bullshit they're throwing at Mark Mylod. These people fundamentally don't understand what a director even does. Some of them think GrrM's directed episodes or call D and D "the directors" half the time. I guess their understanding of what director does comes from film and a limited understanding of film at that. They don't understand that TV is not a director's medium first and foremost and that someone like Mylod or Graves has nothing to do with the writing process and only renders what is written. While ep. 503 is the only 10/10 episode Mylod's directed imo, this criticism of him there is incompletely unwarranted. He didn't decide that Arya would be stabbed. He just directed the scene in 607 as Cogman wrote it for him. It's also funny to me that people are mad at 608 for a problem in 607's writing...but that's a whole other story. I read an article comparing the Hound reintroduction to a Walking Dead philosophy, where any compassion or attempt at non-violence is punished with a brutal end, and which is a completely inaccurate assessment of GoT's philosophy - as you say, Jaime manages to end a potentially bloody confrontation with only one avoidable death. Mostly the show is pretty nuanced in it's depictions of violence, so I agree with you there, it was a bit of a disingenuous comparison. Yet that scene of The Hound killing those four guys did feel like a complete rejection of Ray's compassionate philosophy. It didn't feel as nuanced as it could have been, which is a shame. But maybe it's premature and we will see The Hound come to accept some form of Ray's ideals. I feel like those two young guys were put in the scene to temper the feeling of justice we would have gotten from just watching The Hound kill the two guys we knew were responsible but I could have done without a quip at the end to mangle the tone.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 10:18:09 GMT
I think a bunch of what he said was disingenuous. Especially the bit about GrrM's supposed non-violence when really GrrM objected to Vietnam specifically but is not a full-blown pacifist in all cases. He also didn't bother delving into why it's pretty clear that those guys Sandor killed were the ones responsible for the massacre of Ray's group, since those three dudes that threatened the community didn't act alone. Which since those were the guys responsible for killing a fuckton of innocents, is not the sort of violence that GrrM rejects in principle. And Sandor is still very plainly much more reflective than he ever was previously and his whole scene with Thoros and Beric was a reflection on his character development or rather the choice to join a community and its failure and then his possible future decision to now join the BWB. Alt Shift X didn't bother engaging with any of that and instead went with the reddit talking points and preaching to the choir. But I'm nowhere near as mad at Alt Shift X as I am at the redditors for the bullshit they're throwing at Mark Mylod. These people fundamentally don't understand what a director even does. Some of them think GrrM's directed episodes or call D and D "the directors" half the time. I guess their understanding of what director does comes from film and a limited understanding of film at that. They don't understand that TV is not a director's medium first and foremost and that someone like Mylod or Graves has nothing to do with the writing process and only renders what is written. While ep. 503 is the only 10/10 episode Mylod's directed imo, this criticism of him there is incompletely unwarranted. He didn't decide that Arya would be stabbed. He just directed the scene in 607 as Cogman wrote it for him. It's also funny to me that people are mad at 608 for a problem in 607's writing...but that's a whole other story. I read an article comparing the Hound reintroduction to a Walking Dead philosophy, where any compassion or attempt at non-violence is punished with a brutal end, and which is a completely inaccurate assessment of GoT's philosophy - as you say, Jaime manages to end a potentially bloody confrontation with only one avoidable death. Mostly the show is pretty nuanced in it's depictions of violence, so I agree with you there, it was a bit of a disingenuous comparison. Yet that scene of The Hound killing those four guys did feel like a complete rejection of Ray's compassionate philosophy. It didn't feel as nuanced as it could have been, which is a shame. But maybe it's premature and we will see The Hound come to accept some form of Ray's ideals. I feel like those two young guys were put in the scene to temper the feeling of justice we would have gotten from just watching The Hound kill the two guys we knew were responsible but I could have done without a quip at the end to mangle the tone. The two younger guys were definitely meant to add some more moral ambiguity to his revenge. Even though I'm sure they were complicit in the massacre, there's no way they were as complicit as showLem and some of the older guys. What's funny to me there though is that the most critical people shit on the fact that the show didn't make it clear whether they were a splinter group from the BWB or not or if they were collateral damage to the Hound's vengeance. But if they'd been having a big exposition-filled conversation about the massacre instead of just bantering, the same people would have complained about the show not having enough ambiguity. It really is a zero sum game with these people, where they'll say it's either too vague or too literal. There's no middle ground so long as they can criticize it. Which is fine unto itself but ad nauseam and with everybody on reddit piling it gets annoying very quickly.
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Steve Stark
Grumpkin
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
Posts: 262
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Post by Steve Stark on Jun 18, 2016 10:29:00 GMT
I read an article comparing the Hound reintroduction to a Walking Dead philosophy, where any compassion or attempt at non-violence is punished with a brutal end, and which is a completely inaccurate assessment of GoT's philosophy - as you say, Jaime manages to end a potentially bloody confrontation with only one avoidable death. Mostly the show is pretty nuanced in it's depictions of violence, so I agree with you there, it was a bit of a disingenuous comparison. Yet that scene of The Hound killing those four guys did feel like a complete rejection of Ray's compassionate philosophy. It didn't feel as nuanced as it could have been, which is a shame. But maybe it's premature and we will see The Hound come to accept some form of Ray's ideals. I feel like those two young guys were put in the scene to temper the feeling of justice we would have gotten from just watching The Hound kill the two guys we knew were responsible but I could have done without a quip at the end to mangle the tone. The two younger guys were definitely meant to add some more moral ambiguity to his revenge. Even though I'm sure they were complicit in the massacre, there's no way they were as complicit as showLem and some of the older guys. What's funny to me there though is that the most critical people shit on the fact that the show didn't make it clear whether they were a splinter group from the BWB or not or if they were collateral damage to the Hound's vengeance. But if they'd been having a big exposition-filled conversation about the massacre instead of just bantering, the same people would have complained about the show not having enough ambiguity. It really is a zero sum game with these people, where they'll say it's either too vague or too literal. There's no middle ground so long as they can criticize it. Which is fine unto itself but ad nauseam and with everybody on reddit piling it gets annoying very quickly.
I like you. Both for your well thought out arguments, and the fact that every time you post I get to see Sophie. It makes everything you say more beautifully written.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 10:39:41 GMT
The two younger guys were definitely meant to add some more moral ambiguity to his revenge. Even though I'm sure they were complicit in the massacre, there's no way they were as complicit as showLem and some of the older guys. What's funny to me there though is that the most critical people shit on the fact that the show didn't make it clear whether they were a splinter group from the BWB or not or if they were collateral damage to the Hound's vengeance. But if they'd been having a big exposition-filled conversation about the massacre instead of just bantering, the same people would have complained about the show not having enough ambiguity. It really is a zero sum game with these people, where they'll say it's either too vague or too literal. There's no middle ground so long as they can criticize it. Which is fine unto itself but ad nauseam and with everybody on reddit piling it gets annoying very quickly.
I like you. Both for your well thought out arguments, and the fact that every time you post I get to see Sophie. It makes everything you say more beautifully written.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Jun 18, 2016 10:42:48 GMT
I think a bunch of what he said was disingenuous. Especially the bit about GrrM's supposed non-violence when really GrrM objected to Vietnam specifically but is not a full-blown pacifist in all cases. He also didn't bother delving into why it's pretty clear that those guys Sandor killed were the ones responsible for the massacre of Ray's group, since those three dudes that threatened the community didn't act alone. Which since those were the guys responsible for killing a fuckton of innocents, is not the sort of violence that GrrM rejects in principle. And Sandor is still very plainly much more reflective than he ever was previously and his whole scene with Thoros and Beric was a reflection on his character development or rather the choice to join a community and its failure and then his possible future decision to now join the BWB. Alt Shift X didn't bother engaging with any of that and instead went with the reddit talking points and preaching to the choir. But I'm nowhere near as mad at Alt Shift X as I am at the redditors for the bullshit they're throwing at Mark Mylod. These people fundamentally don't understand what a director even does. Some of them think GrrM's directed episodes or call D and D "the directors" half the time. I guess their understanding of what director does comes from film and a limited understanding of film at that. They don't understand that TV is not a director's medium first and foremost and that someone like Mylod or Graves has nothing to do with the writing process and only renders what is written. While ep. 503 is the only 10/10 episode Mylod's directed imo, this criticism of him there is incompletely unwarranted. He didn't decide that Arya would be stabbed. He just directed the scene in 607 as Cogman wrote it for him. It's also funny to me that people are mad at 608 for a problem in 607's writing...but that's a whole other story. I read an article comparing the Hound reintroduction to a Walking Dead philosophy, where any compassion or attempt at non-violence is punished with a brutal end, and which is a completely inaccurate assessment of GoT's philosophy - as you say, Jaime manages to end a potentially bloody confrontation with only one avoidable death. Mostly the show is pretty nuanced in it's depictions of violence, so I agree with you there, it was a bit of a disingenuous comparison. Yet that scene of The Hound killing those four guys did feel like a complete rejection of Ray's compassionate philosophy. It didn't feel as nuanced as it could have been, which is a shame. But maybe it's premature and we will see The Hound come to accept some form of Ray's ideals. I feel like those two young guys were put in the scene to temper the feeling of justice we would have gotten from just watching The Hound kill the two guys we knew were responsible but I could have done without a quip at the end to mangle the tone. I think the Hounds character arch this series and next is gonna be about him trying to find a way to fit in to a new world. His only real way is violence, but I think working with the BwB, and Rays guidance is setting him on a path which will shape his characters end game. In that sense, it makes sense to have the Hound answer violence with violence, but ultimately shift into more of a just character than he was in the past.
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Steve Stark
Grumpkin
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
Posts: 262
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Post by Steve Stark on Jun 18, 2016 10:58:43 GMT
I read an article comparing the Hound reintroduction to a Walking Dead philosophy, where any compassion or attempt at non-violence is punished with a brutal end, and which is a completely inaccurate assessment of GoT's philosophy - as you say, Jaime manages to end a potentially bloody confrontation with only one avoidable death. Mostly the show is pretty nuanced in it's depictions of violence, so I agree with you there, it was a bit of a disingenuous comparison. Yet that scene of The Hound killing those four guys did feel like a complete rejection of Ray's compassionate philosophy. It didn't feel as nuanced as it could have been, which is a shame. But maybe it's premature and we will see The Hound come to accept some form of Ray's ideals. I feel like those two young guys were put in the scene to temper the feeling of justice we would have gotten from just watching The Hound kill the two guys we knew were responsible but I could have done without a quip at the end to mangle the tone. I think the Hounds character arch this series and next is gonna be about him trying to find a way to fit in to a new world. His only real way is violence, but I think working with the BwB, and Rays guidance is setting him on a path which will shape his characters end game. In that sense, it makes sense to have the Hound answer violence with violence, but ultimately shift into more of a just character than he was in the past.
I agree. He always used his violence for...well, violence. He was just a nasty person with brute strength and the capability to slaughter those in his path. It will be nice to have someone who has developed some honor, and a sense of justice with those same capabilities of violence.
I'd worship the ground he walked on if he killed the Mountain (although he'll be done-for after that battle), but in his last breath he takes out Cersei. He would be my hero for a good, long time.
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Post by breakfest on Jun 18, 2016 11:18:30 GMT
I read an article comparing the Hound reintroduction to a Walking Dead philosophy, where any compassion or attempt at non-violence is punished with a brutal end, and which is a completely inaccurate assessment of GoT's philosophy - as you say, Jaime manages to end a potentially bloody confrontation with only one avoidable death. Mostly the show is pretty nuanced in it's depictions of violence, so I agree with you there, it was a bit of a disingenuous comparison. Yet that scene of The Hound killing those four guys did feel like a complete rejection of Ray's compassionate philosophy. It didn't feel as nuanced as it could have been, which is a shame. But maybe it's premature and we will see The Hound come to accept some form of Ray's ideals. I feel like those two young guys were put in the scene to temper the feeling of justice we would have gotten from just watching The Hound kill the two guys we knew were responsible but I could have done without a quip at the end to mangle the tone. I think the Hounds character arch this series and next is gonna be about him trying to find a way to fit in to a new world. His only real way is violence, but I think working with the BwB, and Rays guidance is setting him on a path which will shape his characters end game. In that sense, it makes sense to have the Hound answer violence with violence, but ultimately shift into more of a just character than he was in the past. I hope so. I understand The Hound is a character with a deep connection with violence that isn't just going to disappear. I think he's come to terms with the fact that killing is what he does, is what he is known for, but I really hope it doesn't stop at that. I really hope Ray's radical ideology has a lasting impact on him. Above all I hope he gets to see Arya again and they can help to bring each other round, but not very often do things turn out as we'd like.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 11:25:50 GMT
As revolting as youtube comments are for the most part, I just read one about Jon and Thoros perhaps one day becoming "man-bun buddies". Which is almost enough levity to renew my faith in humanity... Almost.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 13:06:45 GMT
I think the Hound picking up the axe at the end of 607 was symbolic of his choice to choose violence and go against Ray's philosophy. I think Rays passive ways changed aspects of him ie he might treat the small folk better. But I think he has decided to accept who he is and what the world has made him.
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Post by atimeforwolves on Jun 18, 2016 18:24:36 GMT
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Post by Nezzer on Jun 18, 2016 18:30:07 GMT
I'm not sure if anyone posted it before, but we can read Sansa's letter to Blackfish and omg it's sooo bad, 2huge errors and they didn't notice or didn't care "Family. Honour. Duty." "My mother - your sister"
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Steve Stark
Grumpkin
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
Posts: 262
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Post by Steve Stark on Jun 18, 2016 18:32:34 GMT
What are the two huge errors? I'm a dumb dumb and need it spelled out for me. I'm a creative writer, not much of a grammar or spelling wizard.
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Steve Stark
Grumpkin
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
Posts: 262
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Post by Steve Stark on Jun 18, 2016 18:33:13 GMT
God damn it....now I see it. lol
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Jun 18, 2016 20:10:44 GMT
I think the Hounds character arch this series and next is gonna be about him trying to find a way to fit in to a new world. His only real way is violence, but I think working with the BwB, and Rays guidance is setting him on a path which will shape his characters end game. In that sense, it makes sense to have the Hound answer violence with violence, but ultimately shift into more of a just character than he was in the past. I hope so. I understand The Hound is a character with a deep connection with violence that isn't just going to disappear. I think he's come to terms with the fact that killing is what he does, is what he is known for, but I really hope it doesn't stop at that. I really hope Ray's radical ideology has a lasting impact on him. Above all I hope he gets to see Arya again and they can help to bring each other round, but not very often do things turn out as we'd like. Well, I'd like to think they didn't just bring McShane in as a character who's only purpose was to die and be forgotten. Seems like a hell of a waste... I'm sure there'll be some impact. His return was far too important not for him to have learnt something.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Jun 18, 2016 20:15:01 GMT
I'm not sure if anyone posted it before, but we can read Sansa's letter to Blackfish and omg it's sooo bad, 2huge errors and they didn't notice or didn't care "Family. Honour. Duty." "My mother - your sister" Clearly Sansa channelled her inner Cersei and hit the wine Pre-letter writing...
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Post by Admin on Jun 18, 2016 20:18:06 GMT
I'm not sure if anyone posted it before, but we can read Sansa's letter to Blackfish and omg it's sooo bad, 2huge errors and they didn't notice or didn't care That thing is REAL?! I thought it was fan made
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Post by atimeforwolves on Jun 18, 2016 20:32:39 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 20:33:35 GMT
Thankfully it wasn't shown on-screen then. Normally these little behind-the-scenes details are on-point. Guess the production assistant responsible for this fucked up this time.
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