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Post by DaveyJoe on Jun 6, 2016 7:58:45 GMT
I don't see it that way, I seem to remember the BwB growing increasingly dangerous as LSH took over, to the point of a massive schism at which point Thoros split. The BwB under LSH wouldn't work unless it seemed more dangerous than benevolent. If anything, I think this is even more proof that we'll get our cold Lady before the end of the season. Don't you see it that way? The BwB is much more dangerous and unpredictable under Stoneheart's leadership, no question, but I don't think we have any reason to believe that they would murder a bunch of innocent people, men, women and children alike, unless they had a very good reason for it, and they really didn't seem to have one in this episode. We have more reason to believe that they do, in fact, still care for the common folk, at least to some small extent. I don't think there was ever a split in the brotherood into two separate factions, instead some of its members simply left because they weren't happy with Catelyn's leadership. Thoros is still with them, he's just super depressed. The BwB is leading a campaign of bloody vengance for the Red Wedding, and everyone who gets in their way is likely to die, but the show presented them as common thieves in this episode, and nothing more. It was especially painful to see Lem Lemoncloak like that. I remember it differently, I thought Thoros took some supporters and separated from Stoneheart's BWB completely. I think one of the main themes, is that, for better or worse, LSH turned things into more of a revenge quest, and less about helping the commoners. That's the type of thing that caused the schism in the BwB. That's what makes that story line so deliciously compelling. We're rooting for LSH killing of the Freys, but there is definitely going to be some collateral damage along the way. And I don't think the show would bother bringing the BwB back if not for the ultimate reveal of LSH. And they're rightly making it so morally difficult between beloved characters. It wouldn't be compelling if it was an easy 'let's root for this team' storyline.
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Post by Admin on Jun 6, 2016 8:06:36 GMT
Why is everyone referring to these people as BwB if they seem to be renegades from BwB? We are renegades from w.org yet we are not w.org. See my point?
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Post by Basil on Jun 6, 2016 8:11:17 GMT
The BwB is much more dangerous and unpredictable under Stoneheart's leadership, no question, but I don't think we have any reason to believe that they would murder a bunch of innocent people, men, women and children alike, unless they had a very good reason for it, and they really didn't seem to have one in this episode. We have more reason to believe that they do, in fact, still care for the common folk, at least to some small extent. I don't think there was ever a split in the brotherood into two separate factions, instead some of its members simply left because they weren't happy with Catelyn's leadership. Thoros is still with them, he's just super depressed. The BwB is leading a campaign of bloody vengance for the Red Wedding, and everyone who gets in their way is likely to die, but the show presented them as common thieves in this episode, and nothing more. It was especially painful to see Lem Lemoncloak like that. I remember it differently, I thought Thoros took some supporters and separated from Stoneheart's BWB completely. I think one of the main themes, is that, for better or worse, LSH turned things into more of a revenge quest, and less about helping the commoners. That's the type of thing that caused the schism in the BwB. That's what makes that story line so deliciously compelling. We're rooting for LSH killing of the Freys, but there is definitely going to be some collateral damage along the way. And I don't think the show would bother bringing the BwB back if not for the ultimate reveal of LSH. And they're rightly making it so morally difficult between beloved characters. It wouldn't be compelling if it was an easy 'let's root for this team' storyline. No, Davey, I think you're wrong. When Brienne met Stoneheart in AFfC, Thoros was there in the hollow hill cave. He told Brienne the story of how they found Catelyn's corpse at the river and how Lord Beric brought her back to life (this is said by Thoros: "The Freys slashed her throat from ear to ear. When we found her by the river she was three days dead. Harwin begged me to give her the kiss of life, but it had been too long. I would not do it, so Lord Beric put his lips to hers instead, and the flame of life passed from him to her. And she rose. May the Lord of Light protect us. She rose."). He seemed to be really disgusted with the creature that had once been Catelyn Stark, but he was still one of them. There was no split in the books ( ... yet?). I don't disagree with you at all though, LSH has definitely put the BwB off their original purpose, taking care of the common people in the Riverlands, and there will be collateral damage along the way, there already has been. But I think there would have been more effective ways to show us how much the BwB has changed, and how much more dark and ruthless they have become, without having them randomly slaughter a group of innocent people, because that is an out-of-character thing for them to do, imo. Especially since they are (supposedly) rallying the commoners against the Freys.
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Post by archiechvyalthan on Jun 6, 2016 8:14:15 GMT
I think this is a splinter group for one simple reason: if this was the core BWB, the three riders would have been Beric, Thoros and Anguy. No need to cast 3 entirely new characters, one of whom is the leader of this band.
Then there's also episode 6 which explicitly tells us the BWB is doing some serious damage to the Freys and has the support of the smallfolk. None of which is supported by the bandits' actions in ep. 7.
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Post by Admin on Jun 6, 2016 8:16:37 GMT
I think this is a splinter group for one simple reason: if this was the core BWB, the three riders would have been Beric, Thoros and Anguy. No need to cast 3 entirely new characters, one of whom is the leader of this band. Then there's also episode 6 which explicitly tells us the BWB is doing some serious damage to the Freys and has the support of the smallfolk. None of which is supported by the bandits' actions. Yes. This.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jun 6, 2016 8:21:03 GMT
I remember it differently, I thought Thoros took some supporters and separated from Stoneheart's BWB completely. I think one of the main themes, is that, for better or worse, LSH turned things into more of a revenge quest, and less about helping the commoners. That's the type of thing that caused the schism in the BwB. That's what makes that story line so deliciously compelling. We're rooting for LSH killing of the Freys, but there is definitely going to be some collateral damage along the way. And I don't think the show would bother bringing the BwB back if not for the ultimate reveal of LSH. And they're rightly making it so morally difficult between beloved characters. It wouldn't be compelling if it was an easy 'let's root for this team' storyline. No, Davey, I think you're wrong. When Brienne met Stoneheart in AFfC, Thoros was there in the hollow hill cave. He told Brienne the story of how they found Catelyn's corpse at the river and how Lord Beric brought her back to life (this is said by Thoros: "The Freys slashed her throat from ear to ear. When we found her by the river she was three days dead. Harwin begged me to give her the kiss of life, but it had been too long. I would not do it, so Lord Beric put his lips to hers instead, and the flame of life passed from him to her. And she rose. May the Lord of Light protect us. She rose."). He seemed to be really disgusted with the creature that had once been Catelyn Stark, but he was still one of them. There was no split in the books ( ... yet?). I don't disagree with you at all though, LSH has definitely put the BwB off their original purpose, taking care of the common people in the Riverlands, and there will be collateral damage along the way, there already has been. But I think there would have been more effective ways to show us how much the BwB has changed, and how much more dark and ruthless they have become, without having them randomly slaughter a group of innocent people, because that is an out-of-character thing for them to do, imo. Especially since they are (supposedly) rallying the commoners against the Freys. Ah, you could certainly be right, I only read AFFC once, and I remembered a more dramatic separation between the two philosophies of the BwB. And I understand how this episode might have upset BwB fans. But, this was basically a window into Sandor's return. And it makes sense that the new BwB would seem more radical at first... until we see who is leading it now. We'd have to reconsider certain radical gestures if we see LSH calling the shots, no? Jaime and Brienne aren't reuniting in the Riverlands because of a coincidence. I've never been more certain that LSH is in the show, and the show is wisely trying to make it as emotionally challenging as possible between all of our beloved characters.
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Post by Admin on Jun 6, 2016 8:23:39 GMT
Again, why are people calling it BwB when it's the renegades who split from BwB? Help me, I'm lost
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Post by Basil on Jun 6, 2016 8:25:48 GMT
No, Davey, I think you're wrong. When Brienne met Stoneheart in AFfC, Thoros was there in the hollow hill cave. He told Brienne the story of how they found Catelyn's corpse at the river and how Lord Beric brought her back to life (this is said by Thoros: "The Freys slashed her throat from ear to ear. When we found her by the river she was three days dead. Harwin begged me to give her the kiss of life, but it had been too long. I would not do it, so Lord Beric put his lips to hers instead, and the flame of life passed from him to her. And she rose. May the Lord of Light protect us. She rose."). He seemed to be really disgusted with the creature that had once been Catelyn Stark, but he was still one of them. There was no split in the books ( ... yet?). I don't disagree with you at all though, LSH has definitely put the BwB off their original purpose, taking care of the common people in the Riverlands, and there will be collateral damage along the way, there already has been. But I think there would have been more effective ways to show us how much the BwB has changed, and how much more dark and ruthless they have become, without having them randomly slaughter a group of innocent people, because that is an out-of-character thing for them to do, imo. Especially since they are (supposedly) rallying the commoners against the Freys. Ah, you could certainly be right, I only read AFFC once, and I remembered a more dramatic separation between the two philosophies of the BwB. And I understand how this episode might have upset BwB fans. But, this was basically a window into Sandor's return. And it makes sense that the new BwB would seem more radical at first... until we see who is leading it now. We'd have to reconsider certain radical gestures if we see LSH calling the shots, no? Jaime and Brienne aren't reuniting in the Riverlands because of a coincidence. I've never been more certain that LSH is in the show, and the show is wisely trying to make it as emotionally challenging as possible between all of our beloved characters. I hope you're right! I'm glad to have Sandor back, Rory McCann is one of my favourite actors on the show. I just realized something. Maybe it wasn't even the BwB who killed those people?! I mean, yes, Lem Lemoncloak showed up and talked to Meribald, but the actual massacre happened off-screen, who says that it was commited by the BwB?
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Post by Admin on Jun 6, 2016 8:27:18 GMT
Ah, you could certainly be right, I only read AFFC once, and I remembered a more dramatic separation between the two philosophies of the BwB. And I understand how this episode might have upset BwB fans. But, this was basically a window into Sandor's return. And it makes sense that the new BwB would seem more radical at first... until we see who is leading it now. We'd have to reconsider certain radical gestures if we see LSH calling the shots, no? Jaime and Brienne aren't reuniting in the Riverlands because of a coincidence. I've never been more certain that LSH is in the show, and the show is wisely trying to make it as emotionally challenging as possible between all of our beloved characters. I hope you're right! I'm glad to have Sandor back, Rory McCann is one of my favourite actors on the show. I just realized something. Maybe it wasn't even the BwB who killed those people?! I mean, yes, Lem Lemoncloak showed up and talked to Meribald, but the actual massacre happened off-screen, who says that it was commited by the BwB? It's Thrones. Of course it was them. It is what it looks like, always. Unless it's LSHype clues
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jun 6, 2016 8:28:41 GMT
Ah, you could certainly be right, I only read AFFC once, and I remembered a more dramatic separation between the two philosophies of the BwB. And I understand how this episode might have upset BwB fans. But, this was basically a window into Sandor's return. And it makes sense that the new BwB would seem more radical at first... until we see who is leading it now. We'd have to reconsider certain radical gestures if we see LSH calling the shots, no? Jaime and Brienne aren't reuniting in the Riverlands because of a coincidence. I've never been more certain that LSH is in the show, and the show is wisely trying to make it as emotionally challenging as possible between all of our beloved characters. I hope you're right! I'm glad to have Sandor back, Rory McCann is one of my favourite actors on the show. I just realized something. Maybe it wasn't even the BwB who killed those people?! I mean, yes, Lem Lemoncloak showed up and talked to Meribald, but the actual massacre happened off-screen, who says that it was commited by the BwB? Here's what I'll say, from season 3, to 4, to 5, I never really expected LSH, except to play as a season finale plot twist, because she was never properly established or foreshadowed. This year, there's a significant amount of foreshadowing, this is the first season I'd be surprised if LSH didn't appear.
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Post by Basil on Jun 6, 2016 8:31:23 GMT
I hope you're right! I'm glad to have Sandor back, Rory McCann is one of my favourite actors on the show. I just realized something. Maybe it wasn't even the BwB who killed those people?! I mean, yes, Lem Lemoncloak showed up and talked to Meribald, but the actual massacre happened off-screen, who says that it was commited by the BwB? It's Thrones. Of course it was them. It is what it looks like, always. Unless it's LSHype clues Maybe it was the renegade group who did it, and Lem, who's still a member of the original BwB, was just a red herring? Grasping at straws here ...
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Post by Admin on Jun 6, 2016 8:34:03 GMT
It's Thrones. Of course it was them. It is what it looks like, always. Unless it's LSHype clues Maybe it was the renegade group who did it, and Lem, who's still a member of the original BwB, was just a red herring? Grasping at straws here ... Well, it was exactly what it means to me Hopefully the Hound doesn't kill Thoros and tracklist for finale is released soon with some hype, as usual
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jun 6, 2016 8:35:56 GMT
I don't know what you guys are expecting the Hound to do, but the Gods didn't spare him for some type of misguided murder. He's not a plot device.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 8:40:04 GMT
I don't know what you guys are expecting the Hound to do, but the Gods didn't spare him for some type of misguided murder. I'm expecting him to meet up with Jaime at some point and get his ass to KL, after stopping at KFC on the way of course, so that the two of them can face their siblings when Cersei decides to burn the city the wildfire.
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Post by MarcusAntonius on Jun 6, 2016 8:41:42 GMT
The crossroads inn got turned turned into an orphanage under Lady Stoneheart though *shrug* I've always held the minority opinion that LS is a much better leader of the BWB than Beric. She at least gets shit done.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jun 6, 2016 8:41:52 GMT
I don't know what you guys are expecting the Hound to do, but the Gods didn't spare him for some type of misguided murder. I'm expecting him to meet up with Jaime at some point and get his ass to KL, after stopping at KFC on the way of course, so that the two of them can face their siblings when Cersei decides to burn the city the wildfire.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 8:44:03 GMT
I'm expecting him to meet up with Jaime at some point and get his ass to KL, after stopping at KFC on the way of course, so that the two of them can face their siblings when Cersei decides to burn the city the wildfire. Alright, stopping at Royal Farms to get a bite to eat before he goes to KL.
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Post by Admin on Jun 6, 2016 8:44:54 GMT
Depending on whether or not the assumption made my spoiler guy is gonna become real or fake next episode, The Hound is gonna have the honor of (most likely) confirming LSH or slaying the hype.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2016 8:46:40 GMT
I'm expecting him to meet up with Jaime at some point and get his ass to KL, after stopping at KFC on the way of course, so that the two of them can face their siblings when Cersei decides to burn the city the wildfire. My favourite comedian of all time as the one true Colonel Sanders.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Jun 6, 2016 8:47:52 GMT
Depending on whether or not the assumption made my spoiler guy is gonna become real or fake next episode, The Hound is gonna have the honor of (most likely) confirming LSH or slaying the hype.
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