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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 26, 2016 15:20:51 GMT
He didn't really have a choice... That's mostly true, but I think at the very end, Bran was no longer inside Hodor, and it was all Hodor (past and present) feeling the trauma and continuing to hold the door out of love and duty. What do others think? I don't know what to think anymore... I'd like to think that Hodor chose to, since he's always been friendly with bran, and vice versa. All I can think about now though is Ep 2, and Bran asking Hodor why he can't speak anymore... It never really dawned on me before last episode, but Hodor is older than Ned.
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 26, 2016 15:22:23 GMT
He didn't really have a choice... That's mostly true, but I think at the very end, Bran was no longer inside Hodor, and it was all Hodor (past and present) feeling the trauma and continuing to hold the door out of love and duty. What do others think? I think it's complicated He did make the conscious choice to hold the door at the very end, so that's definitely a heroic act. But there were also other forces leading him to that point in which he had no choice whatsoever.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 15:23:11 GMT
So, is Hodor now the biggest hero of the series thus far? Who has made a bigger, more selfless sacrifice? Quite literally.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 15:25:58 GMT
So, is Hodor now the biggest hero of the series thus far? Who has made a bigger, more selfless sacrifice? Quite literally.
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 26, 2016 15:30:02 GMT
Some more random thoughts after second rewatch: -The Meereenese throne room has NEVER looked better. I don't understand how they never did a night scene there before, but it looks amazing, as if it was a new place. The room was completely R'hllorized with all the flames. Beautiful. -There is some real tension when the Night King meets the Raven. That room is CHARGED. And there's a brief moment where the Night King inspects the Raven's face. He probably realizes just what the Raven is doing. -The fact that the present-day children of the forest live in such a creepy, shady place makes an awful lot of sense now that we know that they themselves were corrupted. The idea of this subterranean hellish "forest" is brilliant in retrospect. -The Waif doing that head tilt when Arya jumps up creeps me out. -Speaking of lighting, the contrast between the sickly House of Black and White and the super-colorful play is amazing. Two opposite kinds of 'acting' (FM and the troupe). Damn, Jack Bender knows what he's doing. -This has to be one of the strongest episodes thematically. On the one hand you have characters like Bran, desperately wanting to get lost in their own private little world. On the other hand you have people like Kinvara, who is focused on the "big picture" to a worrying extent ( "all terrible things happen for a reason" and she doesn't seem slightly bothered). And in the middle of them you have Hodor, who is experiencing both at the same time This quote might as well be a summary of the episode: - Sansa and Jon are trying to reclaim Winterfell, because of awful things that happened to them (Sansa/LF talk reminds us of this) - Arya came to Braavos and is learning how to become assassin, because she saw the death of her loved ones; or perhaps more like Eddard' death had to happen to inaugurate the course of the entire story ( theatre play reminds us of this) - Daenerys is marching on Meereen with a new army (which IMO is the first step to return to Westeros), because of... well almost everything what have happened to her; and Jorah is going on a "mission" (I think he'll meet with Sam and create Wolf-Dragon alliance), because of his illness and faithfulness - Varys and Tyrion are in Meereen now and helping Daenerys, because of terrible events of their past (Kinvara/Varys talk reminds us of this) - Bran and Hodor.... eh, it still hurts, but you already know where I'm going. All these terrible things had to happen to characters get there, where they are now. Priestess definitely sees the whole picture. In this context, episode's title "The Door" can symbolize not only the idea of predestination in the Bran's arc, but it applies to all. Door as a symbol of the inevitability of certain events in order to make the characters on the right path (I hope for a greater purpose). These red priestesses are fascinating creatures. They do see the big picture, yeah, but when you see the big picture and only the big picture, you run a high risk of losing your humanity and empathy in the process. Which is basically Melisandre's character from 201 to 510.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 26, 2016 15:38:08 GMT
He didn't really have a choice... That's mostly true, but I think at the very end, Bran was no longer inside Hodor, and it was all Hodor (past and present) feeling the trauma and continuing to hold the door out of love and duty. What do others think? 100% exactly the same; even if it's not true, I'm going to think about that this way
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on May 26, 2016 17:29:36 GMT
That's mostly true, but I think at the very end, Bran was no longer inside Hodor, and it was all Hodor (past and present) feeling the trauma and continuing to hold the door out of love and duty. What do others think? 100% exactly the same; even if it's not true, I'm going to think about that this way That's what Kristain Nairn said he thinks and I think he made acting choices based on that. Hodor usually looked pretty emotionless when Bran was in control but you could see the determination and fear on his face as he held the door.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 26, 2016 17:48:11 GMT
100% exactly the same; even if it's not true, I'm going to think about that this way That's what Kristain Nairn said he thinks and I think he made acting choices based on that. Hodor usually looked pretty emotionless when Bran was in control but you could see the determination and fear on his face as he held the door. That's why I started to think about that like this, in the first place. Kristian's Narin acting during Hodor's last moments had on me the strong impression that it was an Hodor's independent decision. Oh, and the young boy, who played Wylis/Walder/Hodor was also more than great. Anybody remember his name?
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 18:12:56 GMT
That's what Kristain Nairn said he thinks and I think he made acting choices based on that. Hodor usually looked pretty emotionless when Bran was in control but you could see the determination and fear on his face as he held the door. That's why I started to think about that like this, in the first place. Kristian's Narin acting during Hodor's last moments had on me the strong impression that it was an Hodor's independent decision. Oh, and the young boy, who played Wylis/Walder/Hodor was also more than great. Anybody remember his name? Sam Coleman. And he did an absolutely fantastic, heartbreaking ending for Wylas. I was seriously bawling. watchersonthewall.com/young-actor-cast-for-game-of-thrones-season-6-plus-cast-sightings-and-s6-returns/
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 26, 2016 18:15:26 GMT
That's why I started to think about that like this, in the first place. Kristian's Narin acting during Hodor's last moments had on me the strong impression that it was an Hodor's independent decision. Oh, and the young boy, who played Wylis/Walder/Hodor was also more than great. Anybody remember his name? Sam Coleman. And he did an absolutely fantastic, heartbreaking ending for Wylas. I was seriously bawling. watchersonthewall.com/young-actor-cast-for-game-of-thrones-season-6-plus-cast-sightings-and-s6-returns/I remember when he was cast I thought he would be young Robert (for whatever reason) to go along with young Ned. But Hodor made much more sense and he did a great job.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 18:23:57 GMT
That's why I started to think about that like this, in the first place. Kristian's Narin acting during Hodor's last moments had on me the strong impression that it was an Hodor's independent decision. Oh, and the young boy, who played Wylis/Walder/Hodor was also more than great. Anybody remember his name? Sam Coleman. And he did an absolutely fantastic, heartbreaking ending for Wylas. I was seriously bawling. watchersonthewall.com/young-actor-cast-for-game-of-thrones-season-6-plus-cast-sightings-and-s6-returns/I watched several reactions, and everyone cried. Well done, sadists, well done.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 26, 2016 20:06:29 GMT
I assume he never came back for a reason,so he might deliver them to safety and go back on his way. Either he's undead and physically can't pass the Wall again with the magic in it or he's just spent all his time beyond the Wall fighting. I'm sure it will be explained if he does come back though, so we may not have to wonder for long. Supposedly George confirmed that coldhands wasn't benjen to his editor, whether you believe that or not. Also, I wouldn't expect the explanation for a few episodes yet, still, a few weeks is sooner than waiting for George to write it. I think there is a screenshot of some manuscript with the editor's notes on or something that confirms this but I've only followed news like that briefly so I could be wrong. I never thought it was Benjen as Coldhands though since I think Bran would have noticed. I think Coldhands is some random fella, and his significance is in being a Wight outside of the Others' control, and also a device to make Bran's surviving his journey beyond the wall more believable That's why I started to think about that like this, in the first place. Kristian's Narin acting during Hodor's last moments had on me the strong impression that it was an Hodor's independent decision. Oh, and the young boy, who played Wylis/Walder/Hodor was also more than great. Anybody remember his name? Sam Coleman. And he did an absolutely fantastic, heartbreaking ending for Wylas. I was seriously bawling. watchersonthewall.com/young-actor-cast-for-game-of-thrones-season-6-plus-cast-sightings-and-s6-returns/Yep, he did such a good job and Hodor is undoubtedly one of the most (maybe the most) selfless hero in the series. People say GRRM doesn't write pure good and evil, but Hodor... (Not that I ever bought that. He has unambiguously evil characters aplenty)
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Post by Admin on May 26, 2016 20:13:19 GMT
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on May 26, 2016 20:14:29 GMT
That's what Kristain Nairn said he thinks and I think he made acting choices based on that. Hodor usually looked pretty emotionless when Bran was in control but you could see the determination and fear on his face as he held the door. That's why I started to think about that like this, in the first place. Kristian's Narin acting during Hodor's last moments had on me the strong impression that it was an Hodor's independent decision. there's also the way that bran shows no reaction to meera's last commands or signs that he's experiencing what hodor is doing. he's just watching wylis, who definitely is responding to meera's commands and hodor's actions.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 26, 2016 20:31:36 GMT
That's why I started to think about that like this, in the first place. Kristian's Narin acting during Hodor's last moments had on me the strong impression that it was an Hodor's independent decision. there's also the way that bran shows no reaction to meera's last commands or signs that he's experiencing what hodor is doing. he's just watching wylis, who definitely is responding to meera's commands and hodor's actions. Yesss! And how young Wylis looked at him, like he understood what's going on, before his eyes turned white in this warg way. I'm happy that more people share my feelings, right after the episode reaction was more like that Bran did that and he used Hodor, and I've got the opposite impression from the beggining. For me it's more like Bran was bridge between Wylis past and present self, not Bran used young Wylis to warg into present Wylis (well at first time he warg into Hodor, but not at the second time).
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 20:36:14 GMT
there's also the way that bran shows no reaction to meera's last commands or signs that he's experiencing what hodor is doing. he's just watching wylis, who definitely is responding to meera's commands and hodor's actions. Yesss! And how young Wylis looked at him, like he understood what's going on, before his eyes turned white in this warg way. I'm happy that more people share my feelings, right after the episode reaction was more like that Bran did that and he used Hodor, and I've got the opposite impression from the beggining. For me it's more like Bran was bridge between Wylis past and present self, not Bran used young Wylis to warg into present Wylis (well at first time he warg into Hodor, but not at the second time).Yeah, this is most likely what happened. But I disagree with people who say that it was young Wylis controlling Hodor when he held the door. No, it was not.
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Post by atimeforwolves on May 26, 2016 20:56:44 GMT
Yesss! And how young Wylis looked at him, like he understood what's going on, before his eyes turned white in this warg way. I'm happy that more people share my feelings, right after the episode reaction was more like that Bran did that and he used Hodor, and I've got the opposite impression from the beggining. For me it's more like Bran was bridge between Wylis past and present self, not Bran used young Wylis to warg into present Wylis (well at first time he warg into Hodor, but not at the second time).Yeah, this is most likely what happened. But I disagree with people who say that it was young Wylis controlling Hodor when he held the door. No, it was not. Hard to say who controled who, in the end they're two version of the same person. Past Wylis knew that he was experiancing his horrible future and present Wylis knew what's going on because he remembered that. I think that he also remembered and recognized Bran from his past. He knew that it has to happened, because it already happened in his past. It was his decision to make this ultimate sacrafice for his friends. Hodor was traumatized by that experiance, but was also aware of what's going on around him, he wasn't stupid.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 21:31:31 GMT
Yeah, this is most likely what happened. But I disagree with people who say that it was young Wylis controlling Hodor when he held the door. No, it was not. Hard to say who controled who, in the end they're two version of the same person. Past Wylis knew that he was experiancing his horrible future and present Wylis knew what's going on because he remembered that. I think that he also remembered and recognized Bran from his past. He knew that it has to happened, because it already happened in his past. It was his decision to make this ultimate sacrafice for his friends. Hodor was traumatized by that experiance, but was also aware of what's going on around him, he wasn't stupid. It's also important to note that Meera was screaming at him to warg Hodor, and Bloodraven told him to listen to his friend. I'm not sure Bran was even sure what he was doing or whom he was warging. He just knew he had to act. I now think that Bloodraven has looked so sad this whole time because he knew what Bran was going to have to do, and he didn't want to make him, but it was destiny.
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Post by boojam on May 27, 2016 9:20:22 GMT
Seems this leaves Meera in an interesting position. I figure Bran is an important , seemingly, element in the climatic battle against the WalkerOthers-vhatever ... So even if Coldhands-Ben shows up I can't see Bran rolling all the way to his next destination , the Wall?
Aside: (Ellie Kendrick has a good deal of screen time this season, but didn't seem to be seen on-the-town during filming in Belfast , even Faye Marsay showed up once with the younger crew.)
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 12:03:29 GMT
Has this been posted anywhere? I like when talking about the Kingsmoot how he simply says "this scene is better in the books".
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