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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:05:14 GMT
I'm assuming the BWB pull the same shit with or without her. But why would that be a conflict of loyalties? She never swore any oaths to the BwB. I guess just because of the threat on Pod's life? That is if they want to kill Jaime right off. It could be we're getting the RW 2.0. That depends on whether the Blackfish is with them or not, I guess.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Oct 4, 2015 5:06:03 GMT
One of the main reasons they wanted to kill Sandor so bad was because he had served the Lannisters. If they got their hands on a genuine Lannister that would be a prize for them. Also Jaime's incest can be seen as starting the war in many ways. So in that sense they could argue that he has screwed over the common people a bunch. No i believe this is incorrect, the reason they wanted to kill Sandor is because Arya accused him of killing the butchers boy, and they thoguht him a monster like his brother. (in the show) otherwise they were going to let him go. Yeah, and they just happened to find passed out drunk, they didn't coerce other people into delivering him to them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:10:53 GMT
Yeah I have to admit that Brienne betraying Jaime without LSH would be difficult because she doesn't really have much of a reason to since he's redeemed himself a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:11:04 GMT
One of the main reasons they wanted to kill Sandor so bad was because he had served the Lannisters. If they got their hands on a genuine Lannister that would be a prize for them. Also Jaime's incest can be seen as starting the war in many ways. So in that sense they could argue that he has screwed over the common people a bunch. No i believe this is incorrect, the reason they wanted to kill Sandor is because Arya accused him of killing the butchers boy, and they thoguht him a monster like his brother. (in the show) otherwise they were going to let him go. They arrested him solely because he was a Lannister man. They had nothing to pin on him at first except the Lannister army's crimes "lions you call yourselves" and then his brother's. But they did arrest him and Anguy and many of the others clearly wanted to see him die even with nothing to charge him with. Arya eventually provided a charge of course.
But there's plenty to charge Jaime with in a kangaroo court. Most obviously with killing the Mad King.
No i believe this is incorrect, the reason they wanted to kill Sandor is because Arya accused him of killing the butchers boy, and they thoguht him a monster like his brother. (in the show) otherwise they were going to let him go. Yeah, and they just happened to find passed out drunk, they didn't coerce other people into delivering him to them. They still took the time to capture him and bring him to trial, even though they didn't have anything to pin on him initially. It was his name and who he had served alone that motivated that much. "A pretty prize, lads" and so forth.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:19:19 GMT
No i believe this is incorrect, the reason they wanted to kill Sandor is because Arya accused him of killing the butchers boy, and they thoguht him a monster like his brother. (in the show) otherwise they were going to let him go. They arrested him solely because he was a Lannister man. They had nothing to pin on him at first except the Lannister army's crimes "lions you call yourselves" and then his brother's. But they did arrest him and Anguy and many of the others clearly wanted to see him die even with nothing to charge him with. Arya eventually provided a charge of course.
But there's plenty to charge Jaime with in a kangaroo court. Most obviously with killing the Mad King.
This is true they arrested him on the premise he participated in the riverlands raids his brother was in charge of. Basically for being a Lannister man. But i think they had good reason for keeping him prisoner then asking questions. He still posed a danger to the smallfolk. As Arya understands in season 4, but he wasn't a monster like his brother. Otherwise they wouldn't have let him go even if he did win the trial by combat. Jaime also killed his cousin. But i don't think anyone knows about that. They wouldn't care about the Mad King. and Brienne knows the story behind that so she would refuse to kill him on that charge. I guess the only thing they have on her is Pod the impaler. I always thought he'd stay with Sansa though (i think he liked her int he book??)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:23:39 GMT
This is true they arrested him on the premise he participated in the riverlands raids his brother was in charge of. Basically for being a Lannister man. But i think they had good reason for keeping him prisoner then asking questions. He still posed a danger to the smallfolk. As Arya understands in season 4, but he wasn't a monster like his brother. Otherwise they wouldn't have let him go even if he did win the trial by combat. Jaime also killed his cousin. But i don't think anyone knows about that. They wouldn't care about the Mad King. and Brienne knows the story behind that so she would refuse to kill him on that charge. Well, we don't know what they'll want from Jaime exactly. It depends if it's a RW 2.0 thing or just a trial-by-combat. Either way though I don't think the threat on Pod's life would be implausible as a motivation for her luring Jaime into their hands. It depends on how it's handled but I'm not in the business of presupposing it'll be bad because it's not the same as the text, especially since the material it's based on isn't even out yet.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Oct 4, 2015 5:34:12 GMT
But why would that be a conflict of loyalties? She never swore any oaths to the BwB. I guess just because of the threat on Pod's life? That is if they want to kill Jaime right off. It could be we're getting the RW 2.0. That depends on whether the Blackfish is with them or not, I guess.He damn well better be around there somewhere. And what we've seen of Riverrun does seem to indicate RW 2.0 so idky why we're talking about some bastardized form of Brienne's Stoneheart encounter. Yeah, and they just happened to find passed out drunk, they didn't coerce other people into delivering him to them. They still took the time to capture him and bring him to trial, even though they didn't have anything to pin on him initially. It was his name and who he had served alone that motivated that much."A pretty prize, lads" and so forth. Point is, they didn't go out of their way to find him or force anyone else to do it for them. They just go after the people they find. The only particular target they cared about was the Mountain, and if they've completely lost their original purpose by now they have no reason to care about the Lannisters' crimes against the people.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:35:55 GMT
This is true they arrested him on the premise he participated in the riverlands raids his brother was in charge of. Basically for being a Lannister man. But i think they had good reason for keeping him prisoner then asking questions. He still posed a danger to the smallfolk. As Arya understands in season 4, but he wasn't a monster like his brother. Otherwise they wouldn't have let him go even if he did win the trial by combat. Jaime also killed his cousin. But i don't think anyone knows about that. They wouldn't care about the Mad King. and Brienne knows the story behind that so she would refuse to kill him on that charge. Well, we don't know what they'll want from Jaime exactly. It depends if it's a RW 2.0 thing or just a trial-by-combat. Either way though I don't think the threat on Pod's life would be implausible as a motivation for her luring Jaime into their hands. It depends on how it's handled but I'm not in the business of presupposing it'll be bad because it's not the same as the text, especially since the material it's based on isn't even out yet. Anything that is not Jaime dealing with Frey's outside Riverrun, Playing Edmund tully rains of castamere, burning cersei's letter and being outsmarted by the blackfish is going to be bad. This is because its not happening on the show at all and these are all great things he should've done last season. Instead we got Dorne. I'm sure even you could understand my bitterness about this. All that brienne re-uniting/betrayal stuff i have no idea about. i was just making the point that i don't think there is a basis for it on the show other than jaime and brienne sharing a romance. i don't think the threat on Pod's life is implausible either. It just wouldn't make sense considering we know the BWB are generally good people and wouldn't do that for no reason. can i just repeat, as far as we know Beric Dondarrion is still their leader and there is no LSH. LSH was the one to take them down a darker path.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:39:47 GMT
I guess just because of the threat on Pod's life? That is if they want to kill Jaime right off. It could be we're getting the RW 2.0. That depends on whether the Blackfish is with them or not, I guess.He damn well better be around there somewhere. And what we've seen of Riverrun does seem to indicate RW 2.0 so idky why we're talking about some bastardized form of Brienne's Stoneheart encounter. But Brienne's encounter with them and her getting Jaime involved with that, is necessary for the RW 2.0 to take place since he has to let them into Riverrun.
I do think we're getting it btw but I won't consider it confirmed until we get a Lannister bride casting call for Walder to marry.
All that brienne re-uniting/betrayal stuff i have no idea about. i was just making the point that i don't think there is a basis for it on the show other than jaime and brienne sharing a romance. i don't think the threat on Pod's life is implausible either. It just wouldn't make sense considering we know the BWB are generally good people and wouldn't do that for no reason. can i just repeat, as far as we know Beric Dondarrion is still their leader and there is no LSH. LSH was the one to take them down a darker path. Actually all we know about the BWB this year is that they have taken a darker path, via the outlaw casting calls saying they're not protecting the common people anymore.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Oct 4, 2015 5:44:01 GMT
This is true they arrested him on the premise he participated in the riverlands raids his brother was in charge of. Basically for being a Lannister man. But i think they had good reason for keeping him prisoner then asking questions. He still posed a danger to the smallfolk. As Arya understands in season 4, but he wasn't a monster like his brother. Otherwise they wouldn't have let him go even if he did win the trial by combat. Jaime also killed his cousin. But i don't think anyone knows about that. They wouldn't care about the Mad King. and Brienne knows the story behind that so she would refuse to kill him on that charge. Well, we don't know what they'll want from Jaime exactly. It depends if it's a RW 2.0 thing or just a trial-by-combat. Either way though I don't think the threat on Pod's life would be implausible as a motivation for her luring Jaime into their hands. It depends on how it's handled but I'm not in the business of presupposing it'll be bad because it's not the same as the text, especially since the material it's based on isn't even out yet. No, but we should at least pre-suppose it should make sense and not just be a way for Jaime and Brienne to meet up again. And we don't know how the RW 2.0 would go, so that's fine, but you're talking about what we do know of Brienne's Feast plot which makes little sense in this a Stoneheart-free context. (Sorry, I'm starting to feel like those book purists sati likes, which is not who I want to be.) He damn well better be around there somewhere. And what we've seen of Riverrun does seem to indicate RW 2.0 so idky why we're talking about some bastardized form of Brienne's Stoneheart encounter. But Brienne's encounter with them and her getting Jaime involved with that, is necessary for the RW 2.0 to take place since he has to let them into Riverrun.
They already have an inside man at Riverrun in the books, and they could find some other way to get in on the show without Tom o' Sevens. Stoneheart probably wants to make Jaime witness the RW 2.0 as she witnessed the first, but I don't think she needs him to make it happen.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:48:26 GMT
Well, we don't know what they'll want from Jaime exactly. It depends if it's a RW 2.0 thing or just a trial-by-combat. Either way though I don't think the threat on Pod's life would be implausible as a motivation for her luring Jaime into their hands. It depends on how it's handled but I'm not in the business of presupposing it'll be bad because it's not the same as the text, especially since the material it's based on isn't even out yet. No, but we should at least pre-suppose it should make sense and not just be a way for Jaime and Brienne to meet up again. And we don't know how the RW 2.0 would go, so that's fine, but you're talking about what we do know of Brienne's Feast plot which makes little sense in this a Stoneheart-free context. Maybe I'm assuming too much of the AFFC material will be included in how they reunite. But I'm fairly sure that they will. And since Jaime will probably only spend three episodes in the Riverlands and probably most of his time there with the Hapless Son Frey from the casting call, it makes sense to me that at the very least Brienne will encounter the BWB and Ian McShane and Sandor instead of Jaime. However it plays out from there until they reunite could be vastly different; I'm just filling in the gaps with the book plot points I think they'll include.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:51:35 GMT
All that brienne re-uniting/betrayal stuff i have no idea about. i was just making the point that i don't think there is a basis for it on the show other than jaime and brienne sharing a romance. i don't think the threat on Pod's life is implausible either. It just wouldn't make sense considering we know the BWB are generally good people and wouldn't do that for no reason. can i just repeat, as far as we know Beric Dondarrion is still their leader and there is no LSH. LSH was the one to take them down a darker path. Actually all we know about the BWB this year is that they have taken a darker path, via the outlaw casting calls saying they're not protecting the common people anymore. Yeh but the outlaw castings say nothing about whether they are part of the BWB. They may be outlaws septon meribald comes across. either way i think you're assuming things quite a bit. Which is fine because this is speculation. But what i don't think you understand is that i'm trying to speculate based on previous seasons and the little info we know for sure this season. Basically we don't know much for this season. And it is of my opinion in our current knowledge that brienne doesn't have a basis for going south yet adn no basis for a betrayal as an excuse to reunite with jaime.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Oct 4, 2015 5:54:10 GMT
Do we know that the hapless Frey will be shooting while Jaime in the riverlands?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 5:58:28 GMT
Do we know that the hapless Frey will be shooting while Jaime in the riverlands? The Hapless Frey is shooting the week of October 12 and 19 so if Nikolaj is spotted in NI, then yes.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Oct 4, 2015 6:01:03 GMT
Do we know that the hapless Frey will be shooting while Jaime in the riverlands? The Hapless Frey is shooting the week of October 12 and 19 so if Nikolaj is spotted in NI, then yes. But we don't know yet when Nikolaj will be there, so that's a no.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 6:01:09 GMT
Actually all we know about the BWB this year is that they have taken a darker path, via the outlaw casting calls saying they're not protecting the common people anymore. Yeh but the outlaw castings say nothing about whether they are part of the BWB. They may be outlaws septon meribald comes across. either way i think you're assuming things quite a bit. Which is fine because this is speculation. But what i don't think you understand is that i'm trying to speculate based on previous seasons and the little info we know for sure this season. Basically we don't know much for this season. And it is of my opinion in our current knowledge that brienne doesn't have a basis for going south yet adn no basis for a betrayal as an excuse to reunite with jaime. The described outlaws sounded exactly like a fallen BWB. So I do think it is safe to assume that it's them and not some other religious-themed once-helped-the-common-people-but-now-are-more-sinister group. And with them and McShane confirmed to interact and the Hound confirmed to return, it fits for me that this will be the comparable AFFC material.
And I do understand your doubts, igrewupinKL I just think you're being a tad more cynical about all of this than the evidence merits. There are ten episodes in which all of that can be set up. It's doable.
Do we know that the hapless Frey will be shooting while Jaime in the riverlands? @alcasinoroyale or archiechvyalthan would be more helpful in this regard. But IIRC the part shot a bit in August (when David Bradley was in NI) and will shoot again either this month or in November. I'm pretty sure NCW was in August at that time too, though again, there are people who remember this better than I do.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 6:06:48 GMT
But we don't know yet when Nikolaj will be there, so that's a no. @alcasinoroyale or archiechvyalthan would be more helpful in this regard. But IIRC the part shot a bit in August (when David Bradley was in NI) and will shoot again either this month or in November. I'm pretty sure NCW was in August at that time too, though again, there are people who remember this better than I do.
Nikolaj was in NI during the same week as David Bradley, which was August 10 and The Hapless Frey was listed for that week as well so they should have shot scenes together. As for October 12 and 19, I think that's when they'll be filming at the Riverrun set since they'll be done with Snowbowl.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 6:08:56 GMT
Actually all we know about the BWB this year is that they have taken a darker path, via the outlaw casting calls saying they're not protecting the common people anymore. Yeh but the outlaw castings say nothing about whether they are part of the BWB. They may be outlaws septon meribald comes across. either way i think you're assuming things quite a bit. Which is fine because this is speculation. But what i don't think you understand is that i'm trying to speculate based on previous seasons and the little info we know for sure this season. Basically we don't know much for this season. And it is of my opinion in our current knowledge that brienne doesn't have a basis for going south yet adn no basis for a betrayal as an excuse to reunite with jaime. Wow, you guys are all so much for knowledgeable on the Riverlands stuff than I am. I feel the need to go back to the book and brush up as I'm clearly missing a lot of things that are now all confused in the adaptation to the show! But I'm quoting you igrewupinkl because what you said was my first question in trying to unravel this knot ... was there any mention of the BWB in that rebel/outlaws casting call? I don't recall that there was and so we can't just assume it's them, right? I still think it's really odd we've had no indication at all what role McShane is playing. He's such a high profile actor you'd think we'd have found out something by now! I know by method of deduction there's only a couple of roles left that he could be playing unless it's again, something we've had no casting call for thus far and they are keeping it under wraps to throw us off the trail. If we knew who he was playing we probably could piece together what's going to go down there in the Riverlands most likely unless he ends up being Marwyn or something. But as for Jaime and Brienne, I think it's assumed they're going to meet up again but we don't have a lot to go on. Personally I think without LSH she has less reason to go there unless sent by Sansa to look for Arya again since that's the last place she was seen.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 6:11:36 GMT
The described outlaws sounded exactly like a fallen BWB. So I do think it is safe to assume that it's them and not some other religious-themed once-helped-the-common-people-but-now-are-more-sinister group. And with them and McShane confirmed to interact and the Hound confirmed to return, it fits for me that this will be the comparable AFFC material. Wait, did I miss something? Where was this confirmed? Gah, sorry then, if so - I wrote a big long post with all this doubt because I didn't think we'd had any role confirmation for McShane?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 6:12:13 GMT
Yeh but the outlaw castings say nothing about whether they are part of the BWB. They may be outlaws septon meribald comes across. either way i think you're assuming things quite a bit. Which is fine because this is speculation. But what i don't think you understand is that i'm trying to speculate based on previous seasons and the little info we know for sure this season. Basically we don't know much for this season. And it is of my opinion in our current knowledge that brienne doesn't have a basis for going south yet adn no basis for a betrayal as an excuse to reunite with jaime. The described outlaws sounded exactly like a fallen BWB. So I do think it is safe to assume that it's them and not some other religious-themed once-helped-the-common-people-but-now-are-more-sinister group. And with them and McShane confirmed to interact and the Hound confirmed to return, it fits for me that this will be the comparable AFFC material.
And I do understand your doubts, igrewupinKL I just think you're being a tad more cynical about all of this than the evidence merits. There are ten episodes in which all of that can be set up. It's doable.
You may be right, but jaime is only in the riverlands for 4 episodes. i'd say most of that will be spent at riverrun or travelling. i'm wondering when there will be time for Brienne. Especially if there is a RW 2.0 thing that needs to occur, thats likely an end of season event. I think its more likely the outlaws are set up separately through the 'rural priest'. in which somehow sandor and brienne encounter and perhaps plan the RW 2.0 with the BWB. It just seems left-field without LSH. I mean sure there were plenty of other people killed at the RW. For example I would've preferred they used manderly for this since they skipped his awesome frey pie plan last season.
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