|
Post by Karl Katze on Jun 24, 2016 14:56:15 GMT
The Bran tag on tumblr is a bit of a mess with memes like that. The post about blaming him for the war of the five kings was in there too. I block a lot of people. lol And even worse, it's not just memes but like actual serious discussion on the topic. Some people just have no common sense, I guess, I don't know how else to explain it, haha. Blaming characters for actions they make that indirectly lead to the deaths of people they love and then hating them for it is so freaking immature. That element of the fandom makes me nuts. The characters can't see the big picture like we can. They are IN the story. Of course, getting hung up on who to blame and who to hate for things is the lowest form of character analysis, anyway. We all engage in some of it, but real analysis requires that you're able to understand we're talking about fictional characters who were written to do things by someone with a grand vision of what could happen. It drives me nuts too, especially in the case of Bran. Seems like people just love to hate him and blame him for everything for some reason. Take Jon Snow for example, I haven't seen him get much (if any) hate from the fandom when it was his decision to let the Free Folk past the wall that prompted Smalljon Umber to hand over Rickon. That's not to say I blame Jon, of course, I'm just pointing out the double standard here.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 15:48:32 GMT
The Bran tag on tumblr is a bit of a mess with memes like that. The post about blaming him for the war of the five kings was in there too. I block a lot of people. lol And even worse, it's not just memes but like actual serious discussion on the topic. Some people just have no common sense, I guess, I don't know how else to explain it, haha. Blaming characters for actions they make that indirectly lead to the deaths of people they love and then hating them for it is so freaking immature. That element of the fandom makes me nuts. The characters can't see the big picture like we can. They are IN the story. Of course, getting hung up on who to blame and who to hate for things is the lowest form of character analysis, anyway. We all engage in some of it, but real analysis requires that you're able to understand we're talking about fictional characters who were written to do things by someone with a grand vision of what could happen. It drives me nuts too, especially in the case of Bran. Seems like people just love to hate him and blame him for everything for some reason. Take Jon Snow for example, I haven't seen him get much (if any) hate from the fandom when it was his decision to let the Free Folk past the wall that prompted Smalljon Umber to hand over Rickon. That's not to say I blame Jon, of course, I'm just pointing out the double standard here. Bran hatred in the fandom must be a fairly new thing (new to me means in the past 10 years 'cause I'm an old lady ). I don't get that AT ALL. How do you hate a 10-year old crippled orphan for goodness sake? There's really only one character we can blame for everything that happens, safely, and that's Littlefinger. Ya know, the guy who is currently getting to show up and be the hero at the catastrophe he orchestrated.
|
|
|
Post by Karl Katze on Jun 24, 2016 16:03:28 GMT
Bran hatred in the fandom must be a fairly new thing (new to me means in the past 10 years 'cause I'm an old lady ). I don't get that AT ALL. How do you hate a 10-year old crippled orphan for goodness sake? There's really only one character we can blame for everything that happens, safely, and that's Littlefinger. Ya know, the guy who is currently getting to show up and be the hero at the catastrophe he orchestrated. Right!
|
|
|
Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Jun 24, 2016 16:26:42 GMT
Bran hatred in the fandom must be a fairly new thing (new to me means in the past 10 years 'cause I'm an old lady ). I don't get that AT ALL. How do you hate a 10-year old crippled orphan for goodness sake? There's really only one character we can blame for everything that happens, safely, and that's Littlefinger. Ya know, the guy who is currently getting to show up and be the hero at the catastrophe he orchestrated. it's a fairly recent phenomenon in the show fandom, but the book fandom has had a subset harping on his treatment of hodor for a while now. i'm gonna go tag you both in my bran discussion thread.
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on Jun 24, 2016 16:32:43 GMT
Bran hatred in the fandom must be a fairly new thing (new to me means in the past 10 years 'cause I'm an old lady ). I don't get that AT ALL. How do you hate a 10-year old crippled orphan for goodness sake? There's really only one character we can blame for everything that happens, safely, and that's Littlefinger. Ya know, the guy who is currently getting to show up and be the hero at the catastrophe he orchestrated. it's a fairly recent phenomenon in the show fandom, but the book fandom has had a subset harping on his treatment of hodor for a while now. i'm gonna go tag you both in my bran discussion thread. Granted I never re-read AGOT and ACOK (I plan to) but how does he treat Hodor badly? Because he has to rely on him to move around?
|
|
|
Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Jun 24, 2016 16:37:47 GMT
it's a fairly recent phenomenon in the show fandom, but the book fandom has had a subset harping on his treatment of hodor for a while now. i'm gonna go tag you both in my bran discussion thread. Granted I never re-read AGOT and ACOK (I plan to) but how does he treat Hodor badly? Because he has to rely on him to move around? no, the warging in storm and dance. tho i have seen people try to say that's proof he never really cared about hodor in the first two books either.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 16:42:53 GMT
Granted I never re-read AGOT and ACOK (I plan to) but how does he treat Hodor badly? Because he has to rely on him to move around? no, the warging in storm and dance. tho i have seen people try to say that's proof he never really cared about hodor in the first two books either. Ridiculous. There are moral issues that arise with one disabled person using another disabled person that way, but it's much more complex than "Bran doesn't care about Hodor." I'd say Bran loves Hodor more than anyone in the books except Old Nan.
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on Jun 24, 2016 17:15:54 GMT
Granted I never re-read AGOT and ACOK (I plan to) but how does he treat Hodor badly? Because he has to rely on him to move around? no, the warging in storm and dance. tho i have seen people try to say that's proof he never really cared about hodor in the first two books either. Oh right. It's way more complicated than that for sure. Like @witchy said, I'd argue Bran loves Hodor the most. I'm pretty sure he actually says it at one point in the books too.
|
|
|
Post by Karl Katze on Jun 24, 2016 17:56:44 GMT
Sorry for Bran'ing it up too much in here! Anyway, can it please be Sunday yet? I want to see my Starks!
|
|
|
Post by starkfan on Jun 24, 2016 18:20:50 GMT
I see more Sansa hatred than Bran.
|
|
|
Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Jun 24, 2016 18:55:04 GMT
Sorry for Bran'ing it up too much in here! just join my thread. anyway, regarding the house in general, wanted to say that i think people take the man who passes the sentence swinging the sword a bit too literally. the focus of ned's message was on who did the killing, not the actual execution method. he says swing the sword because he just beheaded a guy and was asking bran why he did it himself instead of using a headsman. bran's answer is "our way is the old way", and whether bran or even ned knew it or not, the old way was not always clean. these people used to make blood sacrifices to their heart trees, for crying out loud! the important part of ned's explanation was not "swing the sword", it was about looking into a man's eyes and hearing his final words before taking his life. arya did that before she killed polliver, rorge, and meryn trant. bran heard wylis's final words and was looking into his eyes as he became hodor. jon looked into ramsay's eyes as he beat his face in, and already heard what would have been ramsay's final words. sansa is less clear cut bc she never raised a hand against ramsay, but she did look into his eyes and hear what he had to say and watched some of his grisly death. so, i think it's had to say she had any distance from ramsay's death or wasn't taking responsibility for it, and personal responsibility is really what first men justice is all about.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2016 19:44:28 GMT
I see more Sansa hatred than Bran. Every Stark, except Arya, has received tons of hatred over the years for various things (Cat got her family killed, Ned got his family killed, Robb got his family killed, Jon is too emo, Sansa is a bitch/brat/whatever, Bran fucked over Hodor, etc.). I think because they're front and center and so well loved by so many, it makes them particular targets of fan-hating. Oddly, it seems like _most_ people are able to have both compassion and respect for Arya, which is kind of strange given all the killing she does. Maybe it is because she is so on her own, and most people can understand how sad that is. Maybe it's because we all wish we were a little like Arya. And yes, even she gets some hatred. Mostly, though, she just gets dismissed as a psychopath.
|
|
|
Post by Karl Katze on Jun 24, 2016 19:58:11 GMT
I definitely plan on posting in there (probably) later on tonight when I have more time
|
|
|
Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Jun 24, 2016 20:38:36 GMT
|
|
|
Post by kingeomer on Jun 25, 2016 13:08:36 GMT
I see more Sansa hatred than Bran. Every Stark, except Arya, has received tons of hatred over the years for various things (Cat got her family killed, Ned got his family killed, Robb got his family killed, Jon is too emo, Sansa is a bitch/brat/whatever, Bran fucked over Hodor, etc.). I think because they're front and center and so well loved by so many, it makes them particular targets of fan-hating. Oddly, it seems like _most_ people are able to have both compassion and respect for Arya, which is kind of strange given all the killing she does. Maybe it is because she is so on her own, and most people can understand how sad that is. Maybe it's because we all wish we were a little like Arya. And yes, even she gets some hatred. Mostly, though, she just gets dismissed as a psychopath. I never really understood Stark hatred maybe it's because I am such a Stark fan. Fandom gave Catelyn crap for not being Jon's biggest fan and arresting Tyrion: If she knew the truth about Jon, maybe she would have been better with him but damn, she kept him alive which is a lot better than Cersei would have done. Littlefinger deserves the blame for Tyrion and Cat's belief (in the books) that Ned should go to KL to solve Jon Arryn's murder. Ned was too merciful. But would Ned be any other way? Ned might not have been Cersei's biggest fan but it was the Ned thing to do to be straight up with her and tell her to get her and her kids out of town before he told Robert and had him killed. Robb, yes he broke a promise, but seriously there is nothing he did that deserved the Red Wedding. A withdrawl of Frey troops and finding another way home (books), to Casterly Rock (show)...yes. That was a straight up betrayal and murder and the fault for that lays with the man who could not beat him on the battlefield, Tywin. The Man who wanted power, Bolton and the man who wanted revenge and power, Frey. And Robb was 16 years old in the books! Jon, well yeah he is emo. But Jon is also a child and 16. It can be forgiven. I think the books demonstrate better that tightrope he's walking before his "death"-he's trying to keep it together with Stannis' troops there, the wildings and the NW. Once he gets Ramsey's letter that includes Arya, the guy kind of snaps. Sansa used to get blame in the fandom for "telling Cersei her father's plans to leave KL". Sansa is 11 when this happens. And she does what kids do. Dad says no, child goes and asks Mom. Cersei is in effect, her mother figure in KL at the time. Sansa did not go to her to screw over Ned, she went to her to see if Cersei could at least convince Ned to leave Sansa there. And she's been through so much. Bran, is doing what he can to survive. I don't think he's using Hodor out of malice. Again in the books he's like 9 when this happens? Arya/Rickon-Arya's a fan fave and Rickon's barely seen in the books and as we know the show. I just think there are way more characters in the series more worthy of hate than any of the Starks. But I am a biased Stark fan and I'm like leave my children alone, thank you.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2016 13:14:52 GMT
Every Stark, except Arya, has received tons of hatred over the years for various things (Cat got her family killed, Ned got his family killed, Robb got his family killed, Jon is too emo, Sansa is a bitch/brat/whatever, Bran fucked over Hodor, etc.). I think because they're front and center and so well loved by so many, it makes them particular targets of fan-hating. Oddly, it seems like _most_ people are able to have both compassion and respect for Arya, which is kind of strange given all the killing she does. Maybe it is because she is so on her own, and most people can understand how sad that is. Maybe it's because we all wish we were a little like Arya. And yes, even she gets some hatred. Mostly, though, she just gets dismissed as a psychopath. I never really understood Stark hatred maybe it's because I am such a Stark fan. Fandom gave Catelyn crap for not being Jon's biggest fan and arresting Tyrion: If she knew the truth about Jon, maybe she would have been better with him but damn, she kept him alive which is a lot better than Cersei would have done. Littlefinger deserves the blame for Tyrion and Cat's belief (in the books) that Ned should go to KL to solve Jon Arryn's murder. Ned was too merciful. But would Ned be any other way? Ned might not have been Cersei's biggest fan but it was the Ned thing to do to be straight up with her and tell her to get her and her kids out of town before he told Robert and had him killed. Robb, yes he broke a promise, but seriously there is nothing he did that deserved the Red Wedding. A withdrawl of Frey troops and finding another way home (books), to Casterly Rock (show)...yes. That was a straight up betrayal and murder and the fault for that lays with the man who could not beat him on the battlefield, Tywin. The Man who wanted power, Bolton and the man who wanted revenge and power, Frey. And Robb was 16 years old in the books! Jon, well yeah he is emo. But Jon is also a child and 16. It can be forgiven. I think the books demonstrate better that tightrope he's walking before his "death"-he's trying to keep it together with Stannis' troops there, the wildings and the NW. Once he gets Ramsey's letter that includes Arya, the guy kind of snaps. Sansa used to get blame in the fandom for "telling Cersei her father's plans to leave KL". Sansa is 11 when this happens. And she does what kids do. Dad says no, child goes and asks Mom. Cersei is in effect, her mother figure in KL at the time. Sansa did not go to her to screw over Ned, she went to her to see if Cersei could at least convince Ned to leave Sansa there. And she's been through so much. Bran, is doing what he can to survive. I don't think he's using Hodor out of malice. Again in the books he's like 9 when this happens? Arya/Rickon-Arya's a fan fave and Rickon's barely seen in the books and as we know the show. I just think there are way more characters in the series more worthy of hate than any of the Starks. But I am a biased Stark fan and I'm like leave my children alone, thank you. Yes! And they are children, even on the show, they are so young. None of them is evil or uncaring like Joffrey. Sometimes they do selfish things, but again, that's normal child behavior. Hell, that's normal human behavior. Ned severely underestimated Cersei. There was probably a little mild sexism going on there. At the time he had no idea she was capable of murder. He felt sorry for a woman and her three kids so he let her escape. Terrible decision, but we know that because we know Cersei. He didn't.
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on Jun 25, 2016 13:51:57 GMT
Arya gets an easy pass because she's the "badass" one, I feel. But I love my Starks, even if I don't like what they do at times. (Sansa)
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on Jun 26, 2016 1:53:40 GMT
Found a wolf emoticon!
|
|
|
Post by MarcusAntonius on Jun 26, 2016 13:40:00 GMT
He put Bran into bed, covered him with blankets, and blew out the candle. For a time Robb sat beside him in the dark. Bran wanted to talk to him, but he did not know what to say. "We'll find a horse for you, I promise," Robb whispered at last. "Are they ever coming back?" Bran asked him. "Yes," Robb said with such hope in his voice that Bran knew he was hearing his brother and not just Robb the Lord. "Mother will be home soon. Maybe we can ride out to meet her when she comes. Wouldn't that surprise her, to see you ahorse?" Even in the dark room, Bran could feel his brother's smile. "And afterward, we'll ride north to see the Wall. We won't even tell Jon we're coming, we'll just be there one day, you and me. It will be an adventure." "An adventure," Bran repeated wistfully. He heard his brother sob. The room was so dark he could not see the tears on Robb's face, so he reached out and found his hand. Their fingers twined together. :cry:
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on Jun 28, 2016 20:03:26 GMT
He put Bran into bed, covered him with blankets, and blew out the candle. For a time Robb sat beside him in the dark. Bran wanted to talk to him, but he did not know what to say. "We'll find a horse for you, I promise," Robb whispered at last. "Are they ever coming back?" Bran asked him. "Yes," Robb said with such hope in his voice that Bran knew he was hearing his brother and not just Robb the Lord. "Mother will be home soon. Maybe we can ride out to meet her when she comes. Wouldn't that surprise her, to see you ahorse?" Even in the dark room, Bran could feel his brother's smile. "And afterward, we'll ride north to see the Wall. We won't even tell Jon we're coming, we'll just be there one day, you and me. It will be an adventure." "An adventure," Bran repeated wistfully. He heard his brother sob. The room was so dark he could not see the tears on Robb's face, so he reached out and found his hand. Their fingers twined together. :cry: That's why I love Bran's chapters though. You can feel the love he has for his siblings.
|
|