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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 12:52:17 GMT
We've seen another twincest child dying. I liked the Jamie/Myrcella scene very much, because it kinda mirrored Joffrey's death. and showed that Jamie has a interest in his childran after all, not just because of Cersei.
The big question is: how will it influence the relationship between Jamie and Cersei?
Will it bring them closer or further apart?
My guesses (under the assumption that Cersei's trial will happen in 6.02 and she going to win it):
Cersei will cling to Tommen as much as she can in grief.
Jamie will try to minimize the influence of Cersei as much as he can, because he will learn of Cersei's confession of fornication in the trial and her failure in ruling the kingdom and bringing the Faith Militant into power.
The two will alienate as much as possible, but there is one thing that might keep them together: the mutual hate of Tyrion, who sent Myrcella to Dorne after all.
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Post by janicia on Jun 15, 2015 15:14:40 GMT
We've seen another twincest child dying. I liked the Jamie/Myrcella scene very much, because it kinda mirrored Joffrey's death. and showed that Jamie has a interest in his childran after all, not just because of Cersei. The big question is: how will it influence the relationship between Jamie and Cersei? Will it bring them closer or further apart? My guesses (under the assumption that Cersei's trial will happen in 6.02 and she going to win it): Cersei will cling to Tommen as much as she can in grief. Jamie will try to minimize the influence of Cersei as much as he can, because he will learn of Cersei's confession of fornication in the trial and her failure in ruling the kingdom and bringing the Faith Militant into power. The two will alienate as much as possible, but there is one thing that might keep them together: the mutual hate of Tyrion, who sent Myrcella to Dorne after all. It has to drive Jaime and Cersei apart, I think. Feels to me like this will be Jaime's "what if this is the price we pay for our sins?" moment. I agree that Jaime finds out that Cersei cheated on him from the confession. I hadn't thought of it, but you're right, Myrcella's death is partly Tyrion's fault. Tyrion's fault that she was in Dorne in the first place, Tyrion's for blowing up his plea deal and demanding a trial by combat in which Oberyn died, and Tyrion's fault for killing Tywin which emboldened all of the Lannister enemies. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 15:26:34 GMT
Yeah, and it is so tragic because it is probably the last thing he ever wanted. He seemed to genuinely love his niece and nephew. (not Joffrey of course)
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Post by lordcarson on Jun 15, 2015 15:50:32 GMT
The Lannisters are fucked now, but let's not forget that Tommen is also the last person with the Baratheon name.  So many great houses have their lines ended or are very close, I can't see this ending in anything but destruction by ice or flame. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 15:59:41 GMT
The Lannisters are fucked now, but let's not forget that Tommen is also the last person with the Baratheon name. So many great houses have their lines ended or are very close, I can't see this ending in anything but destruction by ice or flame. This is what got me confused during the WoS, the High Sparrow announced her as Cersei of House Lannister. Did Cersei change her name back to her maiden name? (The desperate fangirl in me hopes for Gendry of House Baratheon, First of His Name  ) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:15:31 GMT
The Lannisters are fucked now, but let's not forget that Tommen is also the last person with the Baratheon name. So many great houses have their lines ended or are very close, I can't see this ending in anything but destruction by ice or flame. This is what got me confused during the WoS, the High Sparrow announced her as Cersei of House Lannister. Did Cersei change her name back to her maiden name? (The desperate fangirl in me hopes for Gendry of House Baratheon, First of His Name ) Cersei has always been Cersei of House Lannister. She never took the name Baratheon. |
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Post by janicia on Jun 15, 2015 18:29:55 GMT
This is what got me confused during the WoS, the High Sparrow announced her as Cersei of House Lannister. Did Cersei change her name back to her maiden name? (The desperate fangirl in me hopes for Gendry of House Baratheon, First of His Name ) Cersei has always been Cersei of House Lannister. She never took the name Baratheon. I re-watched the pilot a few weeks ago and was shocked at all the Lannister flags in the King's traveling party. But I guess they were all for Cersei. It is sort of fun to try to imagine the epic fights that resulted in all three Lannister siblings accompanying Robert to Winterfell. Cersei must have brought Tyrion along primarily to piss Robert off. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2015 18:32:35 GMT
This is what got me confused during the WoS, the High Sparrow announced her as Cersei of House Lannister. Did Cersei change her name back to her maiden name? (The desperate fangirl in me hopes for Gendry of House Baratheon, First of His Name ) Cersei has always been Cersei of House Lannister. She never took the name Baratheon. Yeah, I tend to mix up Westerosi and our marriage traditions. (I wrote Lannister Future in the title myself.. B-|) Thank you for the notice.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 17:28:17 GMT
We've seen another twincest child dying. I liked the Jamie/Myrcella scene very much, because it kinda mirrored Joffrey's death. and showed that Jamie has a interest in his childran after all, not just because of Cersei. The big question is: how will it influence the relationship between Jamie and Cersei? Will it bring them closer or further apart? My guesses (under the assumption that Cersei's trial will happen in 6.02 and she going to win it): Cersei will cling to Tommen as much as she can in grief. Jamie will try to minimize the influence of Cersei as much as he can, because he will learn of Cersei's confession of fornication in the trial and her failure in ruling the kingdom and bringing the Faith Militant into power. The two will alienate as much as possible, but there is one thing that might keep them together: the mutual hate of Tyrion, who sent Myrcella to Dorne after all. It has to drive Jaime and Cersei apart, I think. Feels to me like this will be Jaime's "what if this is the price we pay for our sins?" moment. I agree that Jaime finds out that Cersei cheated on him from the confession. I hadn't thought of it, but you're right, Myrcella's death is partly Tyrion's fault. Tyrion's fault that she was in Dorne in the first place, Tyrion's for blowing up his plea deal and demanding a trial by combat in which Oberyn died, and Tyrion's fault for killing Tywin which emboldened all of the Lannister enemies. I've been thinking about Jaime and Cersei today and reading / commenting on King's Landing a bit more now that the shock of the rest of the plots has finally eased off. Phew! I agree it will be Myrcella's death that drives the nail into the coffin between Jaime and Cersei. I have a pretty good hunch how this is going to play out next season: Jaime, grieving and heartbroken, arrives with dead Myrcella and Cersei flies into a rage at him for failing to do his "one job" of going there to rescue Myrcella and letting her be killed at the last minute. This will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for Jaime once he finds out what exactly Cersei confessed to (and didn't confess to) for her release. Jaime will leave King's Landing at this point, though on what pretense I am uncertain since it's changed from why he left in the books. He will go to the Riverlands where hopefully he will start on his redemption arc (lost last season) again and mend things at Riverrun and help gain Edmure's release. Perhaps he will run into Brienne here if she goes back south again but that one I'm even more uncertain of due to where she is and what she may need to be used for (getaway vehicle) with team Sansa. |
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Post by day dreamer on Jun 18, 2015 18:16:14 GMT
I think this drives Cersei and Jaime apart for good. She'll be furious at him, probably blame it all on him, and possibly send him away. She'll be extra protective of Tommen, maybe even execute Tyrstane as retaliation, but it won't help. Tommen will die.
I don't think Jaime will hate Tyrion for it Myrcella being in Dorne. That's on Ellaria, it's not Tyrion's fault for sending her to a safe place that didn't become safe until Oberyn died. I didn't even believe Jaime when he told Bronn he'd kill Tyrion if he saw him again.
Then again, Cersei and Jaime's show relationship has been handled extremely poorly, they might not even fight about it. Why would they start showing major conflict now? They barely have before.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2015 18:39:05 GMT
It's true show Jaime/Cersei relationship isn't at all strained like it was in the books. They may have been saving that for season 6 is my guess. It has to happen if Jaime's going to have his redemption story at all though. He started to have it back in season 3 with that great scene in the bath/inn with Brienne and I thought it was going to continue on with his Riverlands expedition but they sent him to Dorne. That was an unfortunate side venture that didn't really work other than to serve as a way to off Myrcella after a lot of awkward Sandsnake crap.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 3:47:56 GMT
They're history, of course. It's so clear that once Tywin was gone, the Lannister clam just started disintegrating. Kevan was back in the picture by the end of S5, though we didn't see him, and I do think Varys, in S6, will 'sneak' back into KL and kill Pycelle and Kevin, or else have his little birds do the deed, because Kevan still would be the one to pulls things together, and that's not what Varys (or Tyrion) wants. Jaime will be off in the Riverlands, completely alienated from Cersei by this time, for reasons others have posted. I don't think Tommen will last long, believe he'll be killed, though not sure how. After Myrcella's death by poisoning, I see Dorne and KL at war, Tyrells siding with Martells. Trystane will be held hostage, perhaps sand snakes will get in to rescue him and Tommen gets killed in the process. Ultimately, Trystane sits the throne until Dany's arrival? All of this is pure conjecture, of course, and based largely on my intuition. But somehow the Lannister are going to come down, and fairly quickly is my guess. I think the Valonquar will figure into all this - Trystane is Oberyn's nephew? Then not Valonquar, I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 4:52:00 GMT
They're history, of course. It's so clear that once Tywin was gone, the Lannister clam just started disintegrating. Kevan was back in the picture by the end of S5, though we didn't see him, and I do think Varys, in S6, will 'sneak' back into KL and kill Pycelle and Kevin, or else have his little birds do the deed, because Kevan still would be the one to pulls things together, and that's not what Varys (or Tyrion) wants. Jaime will be off in the Riverlands, completely alienated from Cersei by this time, for reasons others have posted. I don't think Tommen will last long, believe he'll be killed, though not sure how. After Myrcella's death by poisoning, I see Dorne and KL at war, Tyrells siding with Martells. Trystane will be held hostage, perhaps sand snakes will get in to rescue him and Tommen gets killed in the process. Ultimately, Trystane sits the throne until Dany's arrival? All of this is pure conjecture, of course, and based largely on my intuition. But somehow the Lannister are going to come down, and fairly quickly is my guess. I think the Valonquar will figure into all this - Trystane is Oberyn's nephew? Then not Valonquar, I guess. I do think you're right about some of it ... but other bits are unclear yet and hard to make the puzzle pieces fit. One thing's for certain ... the Lannisters are not going to be in power much longer. UNLESS. Unless the show decides to keep Kevan alive longer than in the books for some reason we don't know yet. He's really the only key player left that can do anything at all and as much as I like him as a character, I know he has to go just as he did in the book and I hope it's Varys who shows up to do that the same. Pycelle I couldn't care less about - he's a puppet and has no power by himself and will simply side with whatever house is in power at the time. I do want him gone before Dany arrives though.  Interim is going to be weird for King's Landing... you're right. Trystane on the throne is a hilarious thought. Possible I suppose, but unless he ends up going the same way as Quentyn by trying to woo Dany, not a great fit. Why does Jaime go to the Riverlands now, I wonder? The story is different. He's returning from a failed trip to Dorne with a dead daughter.  Maybe he just takes off because he can't take it (or Cersei) anymore and has to get out of there? What would push him over the edge? Tommen's death is imminent. I feel really sad for he and Myrcella ... caught up in a prophecy that doomed them before they were even born. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 5:08:43 GMT
They're history, of course. It's so clear that once Tywin was gone, the Lannister clam just started disintegrating. Kevan was back in the picture by the end of S5, though we didn't see him, and I do think Varys, in S6, will 'sneak' back into KL and kill Pycelle and Kevin, or else have his little birds do the deed, because Kevan still would be the one to pulls things together, and that's not what Varys (or Tyrion) wants. Jaime will be off in the Riverlands, completely alienated from Cersei by this time, for reasons others have posted. I don't think Tommen will last long, believe he'll be killed, though not sure how. After Myrcella's death by poisoning, I see Dorne and KL at war, Tyrells siding with Martells. Trystane will be held hostage, perhaps sand snakes will get in to rescue him and Tommen gets killed in the process. Ultimately, Trystane sits the throne until Dany's arrival? All of this is pure conjecture, of course, and based largely on my intuition. But somehow the Lannister are going to come down, and fairly quickly is my guess. I think the Valonquar will figure into all this - Trystane is Oberyn's nephew? Then not Valonquar, I guess. I do think you're right about some of it ... but other bits are unclear yet and hard to make the puzzle pieces fit. One thing's for certain ... the Lannisters are not going to be in power much longer. UNLESS. Unless the show decides to keep Kevan alive longer than in the books for some reason we don't know yet. He's really the only key player left that can do anything at all and as much as I like him as a character, I know he has to go just as he did in the book and I hope it's Varys who shows up to do that the same. Pycelle I couldn't care less about - he's a puppet and has no power by himself and will simply side with whatever house is in power at the time. I do want him gone before Dany arrives though. Interim is going to be weird for King's Landing... you're right. Trystane on the throne is a hilarious thought. Possible I suppose, but unless he ends up going the same way as Quentyn by trying to woo Dany, not a great fit. Why does Jaime go to the Riverlands now, I wonder? The story is different. He's returning from a failed trip to Dorne with a dead daughter. Maybe he just takes off because he can't take it (or Cersei) anymore and has to get out of there? What would push him over the edge? Tommen's death is imminent. I feel really sad for he and Myrcella ... caught up in a prophecy that doomed them before they were even born. I can't believe you 'liked' my post and quoted me - I've been thinking for the last hour what an idiotic post I'd left. Too tired to think straight! So, you've made my night! :-) |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 5:32:45 GMT
I do think you're right about some of it ... but other bits are unclear yet and hard to make the puzzle pieces fit. One thing's for certain ... the Lannisters are not going to be in power much longer. UNLESS. Unless the show decides to keep Kevan alive longer than in the books for some reason we don't know yet. He's really the only key player left that can do anything at all and as much as I like him as a character, I know he has to go just as he did in the book and I hope it's Varys who shows up to do that the same. Pycelle I couldn't care less about - he's a puppet and has no power by himself and will simply side with whatever house is in power at the time. I do want him gone before Dany arrives though. Interim is going to be weird for King's Landing... you're right. Trystane on the throne is a hilarious thought. Possible I suppose, but unless he ends up going the same way as Quentyn by trying to woo Dany, not a great fit. Why does Jaime go to the Riverlands now, I wonder? The story is different. He's returning from a failed trip to Dorne with a dead daughter. Maybe he just takes off because he can't take it (or Cersei) anymore and has to get out of there? What would push him over the edge? Tommen's death is imminent. I feel really sad for he and Myrcella ... caught up in a prophecy that doomed them before they were even born. I can't believe you 'liked' my post and quoted me - I've been thinking for the last hour what an idiotic post I'd left. Too tired to think straight! So, you've made my night! :-) We need more variety of perspectives around here - keep it up! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 7:18:16 GMT
I second the thought about Jamie going to the Riverlands. It's possible that he tries to side with Tommen, but he brushes him off like he did with Cersei. Maybe Kevan will get through him, so Jamie decided to leave and do some other stuff? I don't know. |
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So many great houses have their lines ended or are very close, I can't see this ending in anything but destruction by ice or flame.
)
Maybe he just takes off because he can't take it (or Cersei) anymore and has to get out of there? What would push him over the edge?