Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 19:07:49 GMT
I need to work in real life, so I'm going to drop this and run. Is there a thread about greyscale here that this could be combined with, mods? I saw a couple over at Westeros, but it hurts my head to try to read through those threads.
What is greyscale? Where did it come from? Does it have a major role in the story other than potentially killing Jorah on the show and JonCon in the books?
I admit that I did not sniff out how important greyscale was going to become when reading the books. Now that it keeps coming up over and over in the show, I'm very intrigued. I saw someone post a theory somewhere around here that Shireen would not burn when Mel tries to burn her. That theory was pretty much immediately ignored, but I can't forget it. What if she doesn't burn? What if greyscale provides some sort of protection from fire....and dragons? (Okay, yeah, it does seem far-fetched...but maybe?)
If I recall, greyscale came along after the Doom of Valyria. Is it possible that it is the result of magic genetic experiments gone wrong, the Valyrians trying to bring back dragons?
Does it have any connection to the Others?
The other possibility is it is simply a horrible plague, and it's going to get unleashed on the world (by old Foxy Neckbeard in the show and by JonCon in the books).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 19:10:46 GMT
It was created in a secret lab in Oldtown by the Maester conspiracy. WAKE UP SHEEPLE
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 27, 2015 19:16:55 GMT
Greyscale seems like some horrible mix of leprosy and rabies ... almost like zombie-epic-proportion craziness if it were to spread rapidly in Westeros due to the famine, poverty and war-torn disease state of winter ... right? I never read a ton of the theories on the asoif forum about it and like many I just sorta dismissed it as one of hundreds of other details in the books that doesn't really mean anything significant.
But now. NOW. Yeah, you're right - they are playing this up quite a bit more in the show, or are they? Greyscale on Shireen was remarked about a lot in the book as were the stonemen of Valyria especially when Tyrion and his party barge crew with Griff and Young Griff sail through. (Dammit I still miss that story, I really liked those characters!)
PS: My theory is grayscale ends up being some sort of armor against white walkers more than dragons.
PSS: It's never been stated exactly how they cured Shireen of grayscale, has it? That could be critically important for clues.
|
|
|
|
Post by arthucus on May 27, 2015 20:38:37 GMT
Greyscale seems like some horrible mix of leprosy and rabies ... almost like zombie-epic-proportion craziness if it were to spread rapidly in Westeros due to the famine, poverty and war-torn disease state of winter ... right? I never read a ton of the theories on the asoif forum about it and like many I just sorta dismissed it as one of hundreds of other details in the books that doesn't really mean anything significant. But now. NOW. Yeah, you're right - they are playing this up quite a bit more in the show, or are they? Greyscale on Shireen was remarked about a lot in the book as were the stonemen of Valyria especially when Tyrion and his party barge crew with Griff and Young Griff sail through. (Dammit I still miss that story, I really liked those characters!) PS: My theory is grayscale ends up being some sort of armor against white walkers more than dragons. PSS: It's never been stated exactly how they cured Shireen of grayscale, has it? That could be critically important for clues. In the books, IIRC, childhood Greyscale isn't contagious. The maester believe that at least. The wildlings were deathly afraid of Shireen. I think Val wanted to burn her. |
|
|
|
Post by janicia on May 27, 2015 21:10:53 GMT
The books do seem to foreshadow something awful happening with Shireen and Patchface up north.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 0:55:45 GMT
So, no one is seeing a connection between the "scales" of dried up flesh and dragon scales? The first person we encounter who has the condition is Shireen, who is related to the Targaryans and lives on Dragon Stone. Is that a hint from George that there is a connection?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 0:58:13 GMT
PS: My theory is grayscale ends up being some sort of armor against white walkers more than dragons. Maybe those with the blood of the dragon are immune to the power of the white walkers...I've always thought that might be the case. Not sure how or if that would fit with greyscale. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 1:06:17 GMT
So, no one is seeing a connection between the "scales" of dried up flesh and dragon scales? The first person we encounter who has the condition is Shireen, who is related to the Targaryans and lives on Dragon Stone. Is that a hint from George that there is a connection? Oh I definitely see it as a scale-like appearance on the skin. Some think it looks like the skin turning into dried, cracked earth too though - hence the "stone men" name. To me it looks more scaly.  When I read it through the first time, I definitely made the connection with grayscale and dragons because of where Shireen lives. I think it's an easy reference for show-viewers to get as well. There's got to be some connection. Perhaps a disease caused by the doom of Valyria (and the dragons) will also be a shield of some sort against it's counterparts (the ice ones) is what I meant. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 4:14:56 GMT
So, no one is seeing a connection between the "scales" of dried up flesh and dragon scales? The first person we encounter who has the condition is Shireen, who is related to the Targaryans and lives on Dragon Stone. Is that a hint from George that there is a connection? I actually don't believe there is a connection between greyscale and magic, or that greyscale imparts any immunity to magical beings, dragons or WWs. 'Magic' in the form of dragons and WWs has only recently reawakened in this world, after centuries (dragons) or eons (WWs), yet greyscale, the knowledge of it, the fear of it, seems widespread. The leper colony at Old Valyria has certainly been there prior to the birth of Dany's dragons. But, I do believe that greyscale has a connection to dragons, in a way. Bear with me, if you will.
I think when GRRM was inventing this plague, envisioning his world, he thought out 'what is so terrible, so unstoppable, that it can destroy entire populations, wipe out civilizations?' War, of course. And disease. A good author, which he certainly is, relates his imaginary world to real-world history that readers can identify with, which we all know. And in real-world history, we know several things: First, secluded populations (Old Valyria) become, over time, inured to otherwise-harmful or toxic influences (bacteria and viruses in our real world, perhaps dragon blood in GRRMs world). Secondly, those harmful influences, introduced into a new population (Westeros) become nearly unstoppable in their devastation of the population. (In our real world, before Cortes invaded Mexico, the population was 25 to 30 million. Fifty years after the invasion, the population was 3 million. Measles, flu, chickenpox, etc. nearly exterminated that civilization).
Anyway, my thinking is when Old Valyria exploded, killing all those dragons, the toxic influence (however GRRM chooses to describe it) of dragons' blood began to waft across the world, infecting populations that had no immunity to it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 28, 2015 12:49:14 GMT
So, no one is seeing a connection between the "scales" of dried up flesh and dragon scales? The first person we encounter who has the condition is Shireen, who is related to the Targaryans and lives on Dragon Stone. Is that a hint from George that there is a connection? I actually don't believe there is a connection between greyscale and magic, or that greyscale imparts any immunity to magical beings, dragons or WWs. 'Magic' in the form of dragons and WWs has only recently reawakened in this world, after centuries (dragons) or eons (WWs), yet greyscale, the knowledge of it, the fear of it, seems widespread. The leper colony at Old Valyria has certainly been there prior to the birth of Dany's dragons. But, I do believe that greyscale has a connection to dragons, in a way. Bear with me, if you will.
I think when GRRM was inventing this plague, envisioning his world, he thought out 'what is so terrible, so unstoppable, that it can destroy entire populations, wipe out civilizations?' War, of course. And disease. A good author, which he certainly is, relates his imaginary world to real-world history that readers can identify with, which we all know. And in real-world history, we know several things: First, secluded populations (Old Valyria) become, over time, inured to otherwise-harmful or toxic influences (bacteria and viruses in our real world, perhaps dragon blood in GRRMs world). Secondly, those harmful influences, introduced into a new population (Westeros) become nearly unstoppable in their devastation of the population. (In our real world, before Cortes invaded Mexico, the population was 25 to 30 million. Fifty years after the invasion, the population was 3 million. Measles, flu, chickenpox, etc. nearly exterminated that civilization).
Anyway, my thinking is when Old Valyria exploded, killing all those dragons, the toxic influence (however GRRM chooses to describe it) of dragons' blood began to waft across the world, infecting populations that had no immunity to it.
*Nods.* I like it. |
|
|
|
Post by evenstar on May 30, 2015 14:42:19 GMT
PS: My theory is grayscale ends up being some sort of armor against white walkers more than dragons. PSS: It's never been stated exactly how they cured Shireen of grayscale, has it? That could be critically important for clues. Both of your Post Scriptums have been on my mind for a long while now when it comes to ASoIaF. I'll add a bit. I doubt Martin would have had Shireen infected with it and going at the Wall where Val has such a strong reaction if that doesn't turn out to play a part in the war to come. Greyscale has to be important to the overall story, rather than only JonCon (Jorah in the show) getting it. And how sure are we that the greyscale is truly cured anyway? The wildlings think the only cure is a knife to the heart or a pillow over the mouth. Very interesting that wildlings were affected at some point. North of the Wall is pretty secluded. Not much migration from where the nexus of the disease seems to be. |
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on May 30, 2015 15:26:10 GMT
Greyscale always throws me. They mention it enough to make it seem like it will be important, but then they don't tell us anything about how it's cured, when it becomes contagious (if my memory serves me) etc.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 2:59:47 GMT
Well. Just thought I'd drop in and leave a tiny note: Doesn't look like we're going to see Shireen's Greyscale play any part in the story now, are we.  I'm still so devastated, 24 hours later. This was worse than Red Wedding in many ways for me because A, it was a child we had come to adore very much over a long period of time on the show, and B, it was not something we already knew from the books. Lots of speculation and fan theories don't make up for the shock. Really, just devastated. |
|
Quoth
Sweet Summer Child
Posts: 123 
|
Post by Quoth on Jun 9, 2015 15:18:22 GMT
The books do seem to foreshadow something awful happening with Shireen and Patchface up north. I missed MORE foreshadowing?! What foreshadowing were you referring to? (I am soooo horrible at this.) |
|
|
|
Post by Enid on Jun 12, 2015 12:52:18 GMT
The books do seem to foreshadow something awful happening with Shireen and Patchface up north. I missed MORE foreshadowing?! What foreshadowing were you referring to? (I am soooo horrible at this.) Besides Patchface being super creepy, Melisandre says that she has seen him in her fires, with his lips covered in blood and skulls around him; and Val insisted that Shireen was already dead, that her greyscale was dormant but could return at any moment, and the best thing they could do is kill her. There is probably more but those were the biggest signs something bad is going to happen with Shireen and Patchface. |
|
Quoth
Sweet Summer Child
Posts: 123
|
Post by Quoth on Jun 12, 2015 14:40:26 GMT
I missed MORE foreshadowing?! What foreshadowing were you referring to? (I am soooo horrible at this.) Besides Patchface being super creepy, Melisandre says that she has seen him in her fires, with his lips covered in blood and skulls around him; and Val insisted that Shireen was already dead, that her greyscale was dormant but could return at any moment, and the best thing they could do is kill her. There is probably more but those were the biggest signs something bad is going to happen with Shireen and Patchface. Ah! I'd forgotten about that! Thanks. |
|
