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Post by Zadeth on May 18, 2015 10:47:49 GMT
"I also asked whether the scene would be as sadistic as the version in George R.R. Martin’s A Dance With Dragons, where Ramsay’s bride is played by a different character who is not in the show. In Martin’s novel, Ramsay forces Theon to sexually interact with his bride. Cogman looked somewhat horrified at that idea. “No!” he said. “Lord no. No-no-no-no-no. No. It’s still a shared form of abuse that they have to endure, Sansa and Theon. But it’s not the extreme torture and humiliation that scene in the book is.” "The writer producer also confirmed that, for those suspecting Littlefinger might have known about Ramsay’s sadism, that Baelish was definitely ignorant of the situation. “The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho,” he said. “He’s not known everywhere as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him. He knows they’re scary and creepy and not to be folly trusted and it’s part of a larger plan.” You can find the article here.I find it really sad with what he says of Littlefinger, one of the most intelligent and resourceful men in Westeros. It seems very unlikely to me that no one would have found out about Ramsay's means of 'entertainment' and people talk. |
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 11:07:14 GMT
"I also asked whether the scene would be as sadistic as the version in George R.R. Martin’s A Dance With Dragons, where Ramsay’s bride is played by a different character who is not in the show. In Martin’s novel, Ramsay forces Theon to sexually interact with his bride. Cogman looked somewhat horrified at that idea. “No!” he said. “Lord no. No-no-no-no-no. No. It’s still a shared form of abuse that they have to endure, Sansa and Theon. But it’s not the extreme torture and humiliation that scene in the book is.” "The writer producer also confirmed that, for those suspecting Littlefinger might have known about Ramsay’s sadism, that Baelish was definitely ignorant of the situation. “The difference between the Ramsay Snow of the books and the show is the Ramsay of the show is not a famous psycho,” he said. “He’s not known everywhere as a psycho. So Littlefinger doesn’t have the intelligence on him. He knows they’re scary and creepy and not to be folly trusted and it’s part of a larger plan.” You can find the article here.I find it really sad with what he says of Littlefinger, one of the most intelligent and resourceful men in Westeros. It seems very unlikely to me that no one would have found out about Ramsay's means of 'entertainment' and people talk. Littlefinger has built a massive network of spies, but he hasn't heard about Ramsay's hunting and flaying? Blah. I agree with Cogman in some cases. The rape scene is quite heavily toned down compared to it's book counterpart. They handled the scene the best they could. It was short, but still sickening. The problem the fans seem to have, is that this happened to Sansa, a character we loved and we have grown up with her.. and the fact that this change was completely unnecessary. D&D just wanted someone to be raped.. and that's sad. |
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King Tyrion I
Grumpkin
"I am the God of Tits and Wine!"
Posts: 373 
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Post by King Tyrion I on May 18, 2015 11:15:46 GMT
LF may be a master mind, but honestly I think Cogman's right. You can't know virtually everything.
I used to be a "Vampire" player and quite someone with a rep to be able to play those who pull the strings in the back (I'm a player who likes to be the puppeteer instead of the puppet) - I played elders. And despite one's resources, connections, allies, etc. pp. you can't know all and everything. It's simply impossible.
Personally, LF's just gotten more interesting to me after watching this last episode. He's playing a dangerous game. Not only for his sake but also for the realm as a whole.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2015 11:19:19 GMT
This is absolutely ridiculous reasoning. All LF had to do was ask someone in Winterfell. There were flayed bodies hanging there in the same episode as they arrived.
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King Tyrion I
Grumpkin
"I am the God of Tits and Wine!"
Posts: 373
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Post by King Tyrion I on May 18, 2015 11:22:57 GMT
One sees only what one wants to see.
You can see something and "un-see" (ignore) it. It's simply human nature.
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Post by Zadeth on May 18, 2015 11:33:55 GMT
One sees only what one wants to see. You can see something and "un-see" (ignore) it. It's simply human nature. I don't think LF would ignore this. It is something he could use to his advantage, a "side with me or I will reveal your son's perversions" type of scenario. I just can't believe that LF, with his vast network of spies, would not have heard anything on the matter. |
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King Tyrion I
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"I am the God of Tits and Wine!"
Posts: 373
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Post by King Tyrion I on May 18, 2015 11:43:14 GMT
It's the Boltons. Right? They flayed people. Their words are "Our blades are sharp". The Starks (as the ruling family of the North ante the RW) disapproved of that. Like it or not, Ramsay lives the words of his family. A lord displeases him? Let him feel the knives and blades - and we don't know whether LF actually saw the bodies (or took them as Roose's "work"). Don't get me wrong. I'm not excusing the flaying. But there's Roose and Ramsay. Both are Boltons to the very bone. Maybe LF felt uncomfortable seeing those bodies - but we can't know for sure, because we don't have his (Aidan Gillan's) POV (or a shot of his face). And welcome to the boards!  |
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Post by kingeomer on May 18, 2015 22:25:22 GMT
Cogman is correct that Ramsey's wedding night and subsequent treatment of his wife was definitely toned down from the books. This much is true. But he also states that while in the books LF knows all, in the show he knows nothing about Ramsey and I just find that hard to swallow given what a plotter and planner LF is supposed to be.
And Cogman calling Sansa a hardened woman...that scene did not play out the way of a hardened woman. Maybe he meant she becomes hardened after the fact? I don't know. I'll save my comments for the Sansa thread.
@diablotion is exactly spot on with this comment: "The problem the fans seem to have, is that this happened to Sansa, a character we loved and we have grown up with her.. and the fact that this change was completely unnecessary. D&D just wanted someone to be raped.. and that's sad."
I'll add that the scene was unnecessary due to the fact that we know Ramsey is horrible. Having Sansa be raped by him did not tell us anything we didn't know about Ramsey that his treatment of Theon, previous women in his life, or Northern Lords did not tell us.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 8:07:40 GMT
They flayed people. past tense. The starks would never allow this to happen so Roose's activities are kept a secret because he is actually smart. Ramsay on the other hand arrives in winterfell, orders people to hang up flayed bodies as a warning.
LF and Sansa never saw the bodies. they were taken down by the time they arrived. Therefore even Sansa could have asked the old woman (who is a stark loyalist) about what kind of person ramsay is. She knows what kind of person Roose is. him and Tywin orchestrated the betrayal of her family.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 11:41:23 GMT
Cogman is correct that Ramsey's wedding night and subsequent treatment of his wife was definitely toned down from the books. This much is true. But he also states that while in the books LF knows all, in the show he knows nothing about Ramsey and I just find that hard to swallow given what a plotter and planner LF is supposed to be. And Cogman calling Sansa a hardened woman...that scene did not play out the way of a hardened woman. Maybe he meant she becomes hardened after the fact? I don't know. I'll save my comments for the Sansa thread. @diablotion is exactly spot on with this comment: "The problem the fans seem to have, is that this happened to Sansa, a character we loved and we have grown up with her.. and the fact that this change was completely unnecessary. D&D just wanted someone to be raped.. and that's sad." I'll add that the scene was unnecessary due to the fact that we know Ramsey is horrible. Having Sansa be raped by him did not tell us anything we didn't know about Ramsey that his treatment of Theon, previous women in his life, or Northern Lords did not tell us. The whole Sansa - Ramsay marriage is unnecessary. But after it was confirmed, the consummation was going to happen. I am sure people would have complained if Ramsay had treated her like Tyrion. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 11:58:06 GMT
Cogman is correct that Ramsey's wedding night and subsequent treatment of his wife was definitely toned down from the books. This much is true. But he also states that while in the books LF knows all, in the show he knows nothing about Ramsey and I just find that hard to swallow given what a plotter and planner LF is supposed to be. And Cogman calling Sansa a hardened woman...that scene did not play out the way of a hardened woman. Maybe he meant she becomes hardened after the fact? I don't know. I'll save my comments for the Sansa thread. @diablotion is exactly spot on with this comment: "The problem the fans seem to have, is that this happened to Sansa, a character we loved and we have grown up with her.. and the fact that this change was completely unnecessary. D&D just wanted someone to be raped.. and that's sad." I'll add that the scene was unnecessary due to the fact that we know Ramsey is horrible. Having Sansa be raped by him did not tell us anything we didn't know about Ramsey that his treatment of Theon, previous women in his life, or Northern Lords did not tell us. The whole Sansa - Ramsay marriage is unnecessary. But after it was confirmed, the consummation was going to happen. I am sure people would have complained if Ramsay had treated her like Tyrion. Depending on how you look at it, it had to happen. The Vale has been severly neglected. So if we didnt go to the North with Sansa, we would of had to sit around in the Vale meeting new characters and simply playing guess the plot with Littlefinger every week. My only real problem is that it makes most of Sansa's actual story moot, and reduces her back to Littlefinger's pawn again, after teasing her becoming a player. Now she's again awaiting rescue from either Theon, Brienne ex machina, that old woman or Stannis. It's kind of dissapointing to see her character ultimately reduced to this again. |
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