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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 22:19:40 GMT
I mean, I know we've come to expect the worst from D&D, but if Martin was planning on revealing R+L=J in TWOW (which I doubt), they wouldn't be the dicks that deliberately brought it forward just so they could do it first. I expect we'll get R+L=J confirmed first by the show anyway, but only because I fully expect that to be ADOS material, which is not coming out before the show is over.
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sj4iy
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Post by sj4iy on Apr 17, 2015 22:42:22 GMT
I mean, I know we've come to expect the worst from D&D, but if Martin was planning on revealing R+L=J in TWOW (which I doubt), they wouldn't be the dicks that deliberately brought it forward just so they could do it first. I expect we'll get R+L=J confirmed first by the show anyway, but only because I fully expect that to be ADOS material, which is not coming out before the show is over. Speak for yourself. I don't expect 'the worst' from the show or the showrunners. And I don't think Martin ever intended to reveal Jon's parentage in the last book...but book 6: "And then the other one was, of course, you know, I have certain things that I’m laying clues for that there will be revelations later on. Some people had put together those clues even as early as 1998, adding things together. I said, “What do I do with that? What do I do with that? These people have guessed the secret that I’m gonna reveal in book 6, people have already guessed that here and book 2 is just out.” You really have two choices there: you can ignore it and proceed with your plan, despite the fact that some people know where you’re going; or you can get all panicky and say “OMG, they’ve figured it out, I can’t let that be, I’ll have to change it, I’ll have to go in a different direction.” And I think some writers do that, and I think that’s always a mistake. You know, if you've planned your book that the butler did it, and then you read on the internet that someone has figured out that the butler did it and you suddenly change in midstream and it was the chambermaid who did it, then you screw up the whole book, because you get this foreshadowing early on and you’ve got these little clues you’ve planted and now they’re dead ends, and you have to introduce these other clues and now you’re retconning…it’s a mess." Seems like waiting until ADOS to reveal that would be way too late...especially since I would expect Jon to need to be ready to fight the Others in book 7. Same goes for the show. My personal guess is that Jon finds out who he is around the time he wakes up or whatever he ends up doing after his stabbing. That's why I could see the reveal happening in season 5, because if they resolve what happens with Jon this season, then the timeline of events would support it. My own personal guess is that it will still happen in season 6, but the information dumps concerning Rhaegar and Lyanna, as well as Aerys, point directly to the eventual reveal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 23:02:16 GMT
That quote appears to have been from around the time ACOK came out, no? Back then he was only planning 6 books, not 7. So to me that just reinforces that it won't happen until ADOS.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 23:15:20 GMT
That quote appears to have been from around the time ACOK came out, no? Back then he was only planning 6 books, not 7. So to me that just reinforces that it won't happen until ADOS. It was from a year or two ago actually. He mentioned ACOK being out because that was when he first saw on some book forums (back when he still read them, he hasn't for more than a decade) that people had guessed some of his plot points. IIRC that quote is from a talk he gave in Australia with Michelle Fairley and Lena Headey present.
I don't think R+L=J will be revealed flat-out this season, but yeah they lay a lot more groundwork for it in ep. 504. The only other clue I think we'll get this season though is Mel potentially seeing something in the flames about Jon.
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sj4iy
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Post by sj4iy on Apr 17, 2015 23:21:24 GMT
That quote appears to have been from around the time ACOK came out, no? Back then he was only planning 6 books, not 7. So to me that just reinforces that it won't happen until ADOS. Jan 2014...so last year. While he's working on book 6.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 17, 2015 23:21:58 GMT
That quote appears to have been from around the time ACOK came out, no? Back then he was only planning 6 books, not 7. So to me that just reinforces that it won't happen until ADOS. It was from a year or two ago actually. He mentioned ACOK being out because that was when he first saw on some book forums (back when he still read them, he hasn't for more than a decade) that people had guessed some of his plot points.
Aah, I see. Well that still doesn't change my view on it, since he was obviously speaking of his views back then.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 5:11:59 GMT
Are we even sure that Theon and the Boltons are going to have that much screen time, but I guess since Sansa is there. Though, based off of that outline Sansa would be in 9 Episodes, is that likely? sophie did say it was her 'peak' season for her character
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2015 19:31:32 GMT
Having just been reminded of it on the general thread, I think it's likely that Sam has that scene with Stannis that John Bradley spoke about in an interview in this episode. Since I imagine Stan will be leaving soon, 505 is probably the only ep. left for their sit-down to take place in.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 1:44:28 GMT
yeh i'm imagining a scene where Stannis goes to visit maester aemon and sam is there and they end up talking about sams abusive father.
im still hoping for a melisandre/aemon scene
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on Apr 19, 2015 4:00:01 GMT
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Post by King Tommen on Apr 19, 2015 5:45:34 GMT
Thanks for the invite to this corner of the net. Nice to see that there is a safe place to talk about the things we've all wanted to talk about.
The general consensus seems to be that Barristan at least temporarily survived the E4 cliffhanger (on account of his throat not being slit) but I am still leaning towards Barristan being dead (dude got stabbed a lot even without his throat cut) and Grey Worm being the one to survive (at least for a little bit).
There's a couple reasons I believe this. For one, many of the trailers this season included the shot of Missandei kissing Grey Worm while he way laying down which led many fans to immediately speculate he was dead. I find it very hard to believe the show would blatantly spoil one of its semi-major character deaths in a trailer. I find it far more likely that they wanted fans to think this was the case when it was actually a scene where he's severely injured and Missandei is caring for him (or on deathwatch).
The other reason is that dramatically, it doesn't make sense to off 2 of the only supporting characters in the Meereen story simultaneously in the middle of the season. Typically, even if the plan was to have both of them die, it would be spread out so that characters could react to each death separately and they could have their own "moments" to themselves for the audience to process. If this is the case, killing Grey Worm like this seems fairly sudden given they've spent so much time building up his relationship with Missandei. You would have expected a more heartfelt scene between the two of them before he died (I call it the "kiss of death" scene in movies/TV that telegraph that the character is going to die). Barristan certainly gets such a scene with a very poignant and heartfelt chat with Dany before she smiles at him and tells him to "sing me a song Ser Barristan". There's not much left to say after that.
On the other hand, I believe the last scene that Missandei and Greyworm shared together was back in E1 when she asked him why an Unsullied would go to a brothel and he answered he didn't know and then left. I don't think that's where they want to leave that relationship so he's at least going to have a deathbed scene with her if nothing else and if he gets one, Barristan isn't going to get one too, that would be weird.
I've been trying to figure out if there's a way Grey Worm could stick around further into the season but knowing that both he and Selmy are nowhere to be found at Daznak Pit makes that a little hard to picture. The only scenario I could come up with is that he's around for the next few episodes but for Dazank's, he is assigned to guard the catacombs because Dany knows the Sons of the Harpy are going to try and free the dragons. And that would mean he could be part of the scene where the masters end up getting roasted which he may or may not survive.
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Post by Nezzer on Apr 19, 2015 6:17:35 GMT
Nice to see you here, King Tommen. Welcome!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 6:21:39 GMT
Thanks for the invite to this corner of the net. Nice to see that there is a safe place to talk about the things we've all wanted to talk about. I should've thought of you sooner. Us "show apologist" Canadians have to help one another out.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 7:54:39 GMT
This episode is gonna be fucking packed. I'm pretty sure we'll see almost every storyline except maybe Dorne.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 9:18:32 GMT
i think you are right king tommen. except i think grey worms injuries will lead to his death or he will be out of action for the rest of the season.
i'm pretty sure the dragons will be released soon...either ep 5 or 6 by the sons of the harpy and some masters.
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sj4iy
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Post by sj4iy on Apr 19, 2015 12:59:30 GMT
Thanks for the invite to this corner of the net. Nice to see that there is a safe place to talk about the things we've all wanted to talk about. I should've thought of you sooner. Us "show apologist" Canadians have to help one another out. Can us "show apologist" Americans join you? XD IMO, this is shaping up to be the best season by far. I just love what they've done with the storylines. It feels like we're reaching the crescendo- very different from the last two books, which seemed to slow down. I just want to add that I think the Wall storyline is the best of the season so far. So much going on there...it's going to be sad to lose Aemon, but I'm glad he will pass away at Castle Black and not in Braavos. So much more drama to be had that way. I wonder if we'll get more of the prophecy like that, too?
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Post by Father of Dragons on Apr 19, 2015 16:13:45 GMT
i'm pretty sure the dragons will be released soon...either ep 5 or 6 by the sons of the harpy and some masters. i believe there was some other speculation that they will be "released" by Sons during their simultaneous attack in Daznak's Pit, and they will attempt to slay them. On the subject of their escape, are they just gonna smash through the walls? That door doesn't look big enough for either one to fly out of now that they've grown larger.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 16:17:10 GMT
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Post by Father of Dragons on Apr 19, 2015 16:23:24 GMT
Wasn't there a "Master Nobleone Elboneno" or something? And I just read that casting report and I assume they are looking for a "bald man with no facial hair" because they are going to burn him?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2015 16:26:39 GMT
Yeah Master Elboneno and Master Eaton. And then there was a catacomb master cast for a Podeswa episode. Also if Barristan is in for one last scene before he dies, does anything think he might mention Ashara Dayne?
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