serpounce
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WWJD??
May 25, 2015 11:39:50 GMT
Post by serpounce on May 25, 2015 11:39:50 GMT
I agree with most of the posts here, Tyrion will have his work cut out for him with Dany. He must convince her not to kill him, to trust his council and, more than likely, to forgive Jorah. I don't think he'll succeed with Jorah since we see him in the pits. I have the feeling he'll face Yezzan, btw. But it does seem that Dany can't bring herself to kill him. We've seen him still standing after Drogon appears in some of the earlier stills so it seems he survives his ordeal in the pits. I suspect he'll convince Dany or her court after the pit scene to take him back. After all, he has to get to Westeros with his greyscale, doesn't he?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 11:58:44 GMT
yeh Dany Logic. lets trust this dwarf i've never met before but throw Jorah to the pits...poor mormont
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May 25, 2015 12:41:47 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 12:41:47 GMT
@nictarion I meant dragon feedings in general. Dany feeding Jorah to her dragons, good grief.
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serpounce
Sweet Summer Child
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WWJD??
May 25, 2015 13:39:08 GMT
Post by serpounce on May 25, 2015 13:39:08 GMT
just noticed your signature!
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 14:22:07 GMT
serpounce These lines kept being stuck in my head, so..
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May 26, 2015 0:50:53 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 0:50:53 GMT
yeh Dany Logic. lets trust this dwarf i've never met before but throw Jorah to the pits...poor mormont Haha right! I'm pretty sure that was the point Tyrion was trying to make during their boat ride that got him punched in the head by Jorah wasn't it? Speaking of, Tyrion's been smacked or punched quite a bit since his arrival to Essos - damn! So Jorah's going to fight at Daznak's and it looks like he lives - YAY!
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Deleted
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May 26, 2015 7:28:25 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 7:28:25 GMT
yeh Dany Logic. lets trust this dwarf i've never met before but throw Jorah to the pits...poor mormont Haha right! I'm pretty sure that was the point Tyrion was trying to make during their boat ride that got him punched in the head by Jorah wasn't it? Speaking of, Tyrion's been smacked or punched quite a bit since his arrival to Essos - damn! So Jorah's going to fight at Daznak's and it looks like he lives - YAY! yeh Jorah ends up fighting in the pits but i don't think its by choice. Tyrions was seen up in her stand and in changed clothes to hes no longer a slave.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2015 16:25:04 GMT
An aside: I just found out with my last post I became a Sweet Summer Child. I feel all grown up now! (Though Old Nan would disagree!) The downside to that is that I've been sitting here on my computer for hours at a time while everything else I need to be doing just piles up. Oh, well - what's more important, right?
I think I'm correct that Peter Dinklage continues to be the first actor listed when every show begins, and I just believe he'll be around until the very end. We know he befriended Jon in the beginning, and I believe he truly considers Jorah a friend now, after getting to know him, and that that is why he was so anxious to get out of his chains when he saw Jorah go into the pit.
I think that when Dany learns Tyrion offed Tywin, she'll slowly begin to trust Tyrion. Tyrion has been able to reason his way out of all the sticky situations he's been in thus far, so I think he'll be at least partially successful in pleading Jorah's case with her. I'm also putting lots of reliance on the expression that crossed Dany's face when she realized it was Jorah before her - and then her anger kicked in, but that's just her way of covering up the hurt at being betrayed. She'd called Jorah her best friend when he'd offered to stand 1:1 for her outside of Meereen (just watched the video of Dany's best moments), and he's the only one who's been with her from the very beginning, birth of dragons, etc.
PS - I think he makes enough progress in regaining Dany's [tentative] trust to be allowed to fight again, but then I wonder what happens to him (and everyone else) once Dany rides off on you know who.
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May 30, 2015 18:41:31 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2015 18:41:31 GMT
Jorah has to live so he can bring Greyscale to Westeros. In the books, Dany promised to take his head if she ever saw him again, and personally I think she should stand by her word. Jorah was a spy and traitor for as long as Dany seemed weak, when she's blessed with an Ace up her sleeve he becomes loyal to her cause, but I'm not convinced that he's not thinking with his dick most of the time.
Dany gave him a chance to explain himself and instead of showing humility like Barristan, he acted like Dany owed him something. The only reason she didn't execute him right there is because of the soft spot she had for him, as a ruler, that could be a weakness if she allows it to be exploited. I like the character and I especially love Glen's performance, but in the grand scheme of things, I think Dany would be foolish to trust him after everything that's happened.
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May 31, 2015 1:34:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 1:34:46 GMT
i think thats definitely the case in the books. but with the show...i don't think jorah sent any letters after the dothraki sea
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May 31, 2015 8:15:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 8:15:49 GMT
Still, I don't necessarily believe that Jorah believe in Dany's values, as much as her beauty. From what we know about him he's always been motivated by staying in the good graces of the woman he loves. In Westeros he lost his fortune to his wife and even went as far as selling human beings into slavery. After exiled into Essos, all he can think of doing is returning home, even at the risk of betraying a 13 year old girl who placed her trust in him. He decides to stick around once he starts developing feelings for her. Most of his counsel revolves around jealousy toward her male suitors, he tells her not to trust any men except for himself. Usually Barristan has better counsel because after years in the Kingsguard he has the discipline to think with his head instead of his dick. I'm not saying this to diss Jorah as a character, I think he's a great character, but as a man he's pretty pathetic.
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May 31, 2015 8:44:17 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 8:44:17 GMT
How far along do we all think his greyscale will have advanced by ep. 510? I think that would be a good last scene for him this season, to look at his arm and see it's spread even further across his wrist or maybe even his hand? Poor chap.
I do agree with others that he really is a desperate sadsack sortof guy but still, I sympathize with him based on the strength of Iain Glen's performance and just the sheer amount of shit that fate's thrown at him. Particularly with him having found out about his dad's death hours after getting greyscale. I mean THAT's shitty luck, man.
BTW, how much of Jon Con's role do we expect him to take on? Maybe he'll sail to Westeros before the rest of Dany's people, potentially even without Dany's permission because he thinks that'll impress her (as fAegon intends to with his invasion). A lot of people speculate that Jon Con will bring a greyscale epidemic to Westeros, so since they've given the disease to Jorah instead and cut the other fellow, I guess that means he could be the show's patient zero then....
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May 31, 2015 12:24:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 12:24:44 GMT
you make a good point i do think jorah is a bit pathetic, well mroe so in the books. ian glenn brings something to the role to book character just doesn't have- a likability.
i don't know about the greyscale. i guess an outbreak is possible. i think maybe in the book JonCon may infect someone important. i personally think greyscale has something to with the walkers...like if you have it then you cant be used by a white walker OR the opposite is true. either way there is some sort of magic attached to it.
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May 31, 2015 13:40:30 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 13:40:30 GMT
I definitely sympathize with Jorah, or more accurately, pity. Glen really brought the character to life and made him much more likable, especially in season 5. When ADWD Tyrion thinks you're feeling too sorry for yourself, you know you're in trouble. Plus he has one of the best voices on the show, I could listen to him speak all day long.
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May 31, 2015 17:41:46 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 31, 2015 17:41:46 GMT
I heartily disliked Jorah in the books, d/t his being a traitor as well as his original attempt to poison Dany with the wine, till he changed his mind at the last minute. Then I felt he used that turn-about scenario to 'do in' the guy he'd basically set up as a hit man to start with and to take major credit which he didn't deserve - seemed pretty hypocritical to me. Then when he tried to kiss Dany, I was really fed up - "too familiar", indeed! (puke) But in the tv show, I've liked him more, and felt sorry for him when he came back after 'winning' the path into Yunkai only to watch Dany minimize the win while she kept asking after Dario, then having Dario basically shove him aside. I think daveyjoe is right about his motivation, and at this point in the books, Jorah was so broken as to be pretty crazed, fanatical about getting back to Dany, and I just don't trust fanatics, whatever their 'cause' might be. Except, of course, for all of us here who are a bit fanatical about the books/show.
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WWJD??
May 31, 2015 21:11:27 GMT
Post by janicia on May 31, 2015 21:11:27 GMT
So after Dany leaves, the three military forces in Mereen will be the Unsullied controlled by Greyworm, the mercenaries controlled by Dario, and the Sons of the Harpy who are aligned with, if not controlled by, Hizdahr. Greyworm and Dario seem to have a good working relationship. I doubt Missandei likes Dario much, but she probably believes that he follows Dany sincerely. Anyway, the mercenaries and Unsullied will probably continue to operate as a unified force for now.
Tyrion will assess this and make himself indispensable to Dario, Greyworm and Missandei while they deal with the SotH. Since Jorah is the only person Tyrion trusts in Mereen, Tyrion brings Jorah back into the inner circle. By the time they all meet back up with Dany, Jorah is firmly re-entrenched, Dario and/or Missandei have betrayed Dany, and Dany is ready to forgive Jorah's transgressions.
I don't see Jorah's story as particularly pathetic within the framework of GoT. Joer Mormont seems to have a more pathetic legacy. Joer presided over the final rotting out of the Night's Watch. Led the Night's Watch to devastating defeat north of the Wall rather than staying in a defensible position. Was killed by his own men. Lost his only son to exile, had to give his family sword to his steward. Tywin, for all his intelligence, seems to have set the destruction of his own family into motion and was murdered by his own son. And none of the Stark kids seem likely to ever experience romantic love. And people like Ros and Sandor only ever wanted a tiny little slice of the world that didn't hurt.
Jorah isn't ever going to get what he wants - happy marriage to the woman of his dreams. But nobody in this story gets what they want. Jorah hasn't had a particularly bad life. He had a good family, he married a beautiful woman, he got to see the world and go on adventures, he heard the singing of baby dragons, he is respected as a skilled warrior by whomever he meets. He's never been rich and he had to wear the same shirt for 5 years, but he rarely goes hungry.
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Jun 3, 2015 17:59:42 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2015 17:59:42 GMT
I think Jorah is just another one of those 'tragedy' characters who got himself into trouble by being in the wrong place at the wrong time and making the wrong deals. He screwed up in how he got exiled from Westeros in the first place and then screwed up again in Essos. He's almost like Theon in some ways ... a guy who should have been honorable because he's actually not a bad person but who keeps making stupid mistakes that ruins his life. All that being said - whether or not he deserved to be cast out from Dany, he doesn't deserve to die of Grayscale. And I agree wholeheartedly with Tyrion, sadly. He cannot be by her side when they go to Westeros, it will weaken her position to have a traitor/ex-spy in her court. Jorah knows that for certain now and it's sad for him - he will only get his redemption by protecting her at the very end and dying a heroes death instead of as a stone-man is my guess.
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