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Post by Father of Dragons on May 18, 2015 16:29:12 GMT
Yes, but he didn't end up killing anyone. The deadliest man in Game of Thrones, who had an amazing fight scene on the dunes just two episodes ago, couldn't defeat one of them. I wish Obara was the one who wouldn't back down, and pulled an Arys on him, forcing Hotah to take her head off. It would have added something good to the scene. I'm very sure that Bronn rarely fights people with whips. He probably would have killed Tyene if he didn't have a whip around his limbs every few seconds. I thought this was quite believable. Yeah - not as if he could just kick Tyene (like he did), the grab the whip and simply slice it ... |
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Post by morgantayler on May 19, 2015 0:22:17 GMT
The Yara scene was the better of the two but the problem is she didn't have any other appearances that season and hasn't had any since, whereas the Sand Snakes are actually going to have multiple appearances and they can build on that scene. And apparently they only had a week to shoot in the Alcazar so I assume they didn't have a lot of time on it and get it completely right.
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on May 19, 2015 2:03:26 GMT
The Yara scene was the better of the two but the problem is she didn't have any other appearances that season and hasn't had any since, whereas the Sand Snakes are actually going to have multiple appearances and they can build on that scene. And apparently they only had a week to shoot in the Alcazar so I assume they didn't have a lot of time on it and get it completely right. Podeswa didn't know how to improvise properly when the choreography fell through. He needed to stop, and address everyone about how it looked and how it was not working at all, and they'd have to figure out how to make it work more fluidly. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 2:13:47 GMT
^The scene was shot in less than a day probably. So I don't think there was time to do any of that. In a movie you'd get a week for a few minute action scene like that but in a show, even one like GoT, you get more like a few hours really. So they had to make due with the choreography as was.
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Post by morgantayler on May 19, 2015 2:16:04 GMT
The Yara scene was the better of the two but the problem is she didn't have any other appearances that season and hasn't had any since, whereas the Sand Snakes are actually going to have multiple appearances and they can build on that scene. And apparently they only had a week to shoot in the Alcazar so I assume they didn't have a lot of time on it and get it completely right. Podeswa didn't know how to improvise properly when the choreography fell through. He needed to stop, and address everyone about how it looked and how it was not working at all, and they'd have to figure out how to make it work more fluidly. That's true, I'm not familiar with anything else he's done. Do you know if he's ever done actions sequences like that before working on GOT? |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 2:21:29 GMT
Podeswa didn't know how to improvise properly when the choreography fell through. He needed to stop, and address everyone about how it looked and how it was not working at all, and they'd have to figure out how to make it work more fluidly. That's true, I'm not familiar with anything else he's done. Do you know if he's ever done actions sequences like that before working on GOT? He was originally going to be the guy who did "Blackwater" so I think he's plenty qualified to do action. And his Stone Men sequence was really well-done last week. The difference, I'd say, was the time constraints surrounding the two sequences' shoots. I think the Stone Men sequence was done over at least a few different days, one on location in an Irish river, one in a water tank etc., whereas they were only allowed in the gardens of the Alcazar for so long.
If anyone is really interested in how long they were shooting in the various parts of the Alcazar for and how the shoot there was split up, I believe WOTW published an article detailing that back when shooting was still going on (either the summer or fall).
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on May 19, 2015 2:42:58 GMT
There are ways to improvise within a day's time. Just tell them all they need to act faster and just attack, give them Barristan's TWOW speech. "Above all, keep, moving." Tell Jerome he needs to take one for the team here and get hacked at at a bit and go above and beyond and parry real shots at him like he's fighting an actual battle. Have Nym go straight for Myrcella. Don't worry about the 2v1. Have Bronn knock Tyene on her ass and then have Nym save her, then have Nym run after Myrcella who was running away, then have Bronn deal with Tyene again.
I've filmed a lot of events as a videographer since I was 17, nothing near or even comparable to something complex and scripted as this, but sometimes you just need to drop what you're trying to do and improvise.
While my experience can't compare, I do know what it's like to look through your monitor and realize "this isn't working." You say "f this" in your head and take a risk to try something new. You can tell what you're filming is crap, and will look like crap regardless, but at least if you try something different it won't get any worse.
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 19, 2015 3:57:49 GMT
Forget the coreography guys, we had 50 badass Ironborn losing to shirtless Ramsay... Seriously how could Asha not throw her axe on his face
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King Tyrion I
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Post by King Tyrion I on May 19, 2015 10:51:58 GMT
As someone with LARP experience I can say I liked both scenes. It takes a great deal of work to set up things like these. You know, neither of those people fighting is a fighter in real life. They are actors. Nobody fights with swords, clubs, lances, whatever nowadays.
The weight of weapons adds to that. You really need to train that - that's why I loved that "Learning the moves" video for "The Mountain and the Viper". You even need to train when you're about to use a stuffed (I don't know the exact term atm) sword, because its moves are completely different from a "normal" sword.
And going to battle without armor (Ramsay) is likely to get you killed. Ramsay had to live on - so he survives the fight.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 14:26:52 GMT
Dont dislike the sand snake acting. But they come across as corny cartoon side villains. They're not threatening, not intimidating. They just bluster and seem incapable of backing anything up.
Seriously, my biggest problem? The three daughters of Dorne's best warrior can't beat a one handed knight and an aging sellsword, even when they take them by suprise?
This scene isn't a shock, nothing happened. The only character who came off as intimidating in this scene was Areo Hotah, mainly because his threats actually carry some weight to them. He's a walking chekov's gun, or in this case, AXE.
Whereas the sand snakes, more like schrodinger's cat, lets just lock them away and forget they exist. Maybe theyre alive, maybe theyre dead. But at least we wont have any more scenes like this. Let them out when they actually have some content to them.
Also, more Doran please. Lets focus on the people in Dorne we should be focusing on, not catty comments between Bronn and whichever spice girl he was talking to.
Oh and in comparrison to Yara's rescue. They both served a purpose, but they were both ultimately moot. Nothing happened other than a slap on the wrist for those involved. But at least Alfie Allen is fun to watch, the Dorne scene was way too convoluted. The sand snakes plan was shit, Jaime's plan was shit. Only Doran seems to have any real clue about whats going on in this story.
I usually dont ever strongly dislike anything on the show, I don't give a crap about cutting Arianne and Quentyn, or bringing Jaime and Bronn into the mix, but if this is what they plan on doing with them, then no, I aint gonna endorse that shit.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2015 14:34:36 GMT
Forget the coreography guys, we had 50 badass Ironborn losing to shirtless Ramsay... Seriously how could Asha not throw her axe on his face Because Ramsay couldnt die, but they needed a Ramsy is crazy moment. So they threw this in. Can't say why they wouldnt at least gove hitting him a go on the way out, but the as the script needs so the script dictates. |
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 19, 2015 16:09:31 GMT
Forget the coreography guys, we had 50 badass Ironborn losing to shirtless Ramsay... Seriously how could Asha not throw her axe on his face Because Ramsay couldnt die, but they needed a Ramsy is crazy moment. So they threw this in. Can't say why they wouldnt at least gove hitting him a go on the way out, but the as the script needs so the script dictates. Well, in the end this is the answer to everything right? I am not questioning the scripts here, I am asking why the person who wrote them couldn't think two seconds more and realize that the top killers of a family deserved more than a shirtless boy on the fight. If a giant meteor destroys Westeros it will be because the script said so, but we will still think it was a dumb choice, right? |
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King Tyrion I
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Post by King Tyrion I on May 20, 2015 8:16:57 GMT
Learning to act means weapon training. But I do think that some people are actually more apt to learn that more easily and transfer that knowledge on screen.
To stage a fight isn't that easy you know. You need the choreography, you need the actors and the weapons. Like I said, it's not easy to handle them if you're not used to it.
Thus, a fight can look cheesy. Yes. I'm not denying that. But you - as an actor - have to be quite awake and aware of what you're doing. And I agree, the scene looks more like a stage fight. But I still like it.
I'm not talking about Jaime's or Bronn's plan here. I'm only talking about the acting and the fight.
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Post by Admin on May 20, 2015 10:40:00 GMT
Dont dislike the sand snake acting. But they come across as corny cartoon side villains. They're not threatening, not intimidating. They just bluster and seem incapable of backing anything up. Seriously, my biggest problem? The three daughters of Dorne's best warrior can't beat a one handed knight and an aging sellsword, even when they take them by suprise? This scene isn't a shock, nothing happened. The only character who came off as intimidating in this scene was Areo Hotah, mainly because his threats actually carry some weight to them. He's a walking chekov's gun, or in this case, AXE. Whereas the sand snakes, more like schrodinger's cat, lets just lock them away and forget they exist. Maybe theyre alive, maybe theyre dead. But at least we wont have any more scenes like this. Let them out when they actually have some content to them.Also, more Doran please. Lets focus on the people in Dorne we should be focusing on, not catty comments between Bronn and whichever spice girl he was talking to.Oh and in comparrison to Yara's rescue. They both served a purpose, but they were both ultimately moot. Nothing happened other than a slap on the wrist for those involved. But at least Alfie Allen is fun to watch, the Dorne scene was way too convoluted. The sand snakes plan was shit, Jaime's plan was shit. Only Doran seems to have any real clue about whats going on in this story. I usually dont ever strongly dislike anything on the show, I don't give a crap about cutting Arianne and Quentyn, or bringing Jaime and Bronn into the mix, but if this is what they plan on doing with them, then no, I aint gonna endorse that shit. 10/10!!!  |
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2015 11:05:10 GMT
Learning to act means weapon training. But I do think that some people are actually more apt to learn that more easily and transfer that knowledge on screen. To stage a fight isn't that easy you know. You need the choreography, you need the actors and the weapons. Like I said, it's not easy to handle them if you're not used to it. Thus, a fight can look cheesy. Yes. I'm not denying that. But you - as an actor - have to be quite awake and aware of what you're doing. And I agree, the scene looks more like a stage fight. But I still like it. I'm not talking about Jaime's or Bronn's plan here. I'm only talking about the acting and the fight. Its not the fight I dont like, the choreography is good and the camera work adds to the action. But the fighting in the show has always been a complement to the story telling. If the content of the story is lacking then the fight is lacking in substance. And when the fight is ultimately pointless, as the Dornish one was, then it makes me question as to why they had it in the first place. Its fun to watch Bronn dispatching two sand snakes at once, but at the same time, we're building these girls up as Dorne's wildcards. Last time we saw them, they were torturing a man with scorpions. For them to allow Jaime and Bronn to face them in a clean fight rather than just kill them from behind. To OOC for me. My main gripe with this scene though? It's so dumb. Think about it. Jaime's plan is to break into the Water Gardens, where he surely knows Prince Doran is residing, as he's pretty well known for it. He plans to kidnap the betroathed of the future prince of Dorne, in a palace surrounded by his fathers guards. And if Jaime didn't know Doran was there, then just chalk it up to terrible planning on his part, that just makes his plan stupider. Whereas the Sand Snakes plan was to kidnap Myrcella, bring her to Ellaria and kill her... in that room Ellaria was stood in. Why did Ellaria remain in that room? She knows for certain that Doran is present, that he doesnt trust or like her and he is most likely keeping an eye on her. Was staying in that one spot essential to her plan, or was she just unsure what to do with herself. Surely she would prepare a plan B, or an escape route, especially when planning to execute the princess of Westeros... The story behind the scene makes no sense. I liked the episode, but this one scene is just plain fan service. Bad fan service. They teased the fight in episode 4, they had to go through with it because people expected it. But it could of been done a lot better. |
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