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Post by kingeomer on May 1, 2019 12:13:45 GMT
I am sorry to post twice in row...but I saw this on reddit and then another thing on twitter.
A redditor claimed that Richard Madden and Rose Leslie made cameos in this episode. Rose, supposedly, as one of the women in the crypt (I have not seen any screenshots floating around where fans are claiming they spotted her) and Richard as a Northern solider (did find a screen shot).
Nothing official has been reported about them making cameos...so this could be a cool coincidence but someone did a side by side of the screen shot and Richard on twitter.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 1, 2019 12:29:52 GMT
....... ... ...... So why the fuck was Jon resurrected?? to create circumstances that allowed Arya to kill the night king. Just like Berric, the Lord brought him back to serve his purpose (bringing Arya and the Night King into the same castle). It’s kind of weak but it is what it is lol
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 1, 2019 12:30:39 GMT
I am sorry to post twice in row...but I saw this on reddit and then another thing on twitter. A redditor claimed that Richard Madden and Rose Leslie made cameos in this episode. Rose, supposedly, as one of the women in the crypt (I have not seen any screenshots floating around where fans are claiming they spotted her) and Richard as a Northern solider (did find a screen shot). Nothing official has been reported about them making cameos...so this could be a cool coincidence but someone did a side by side of the screen shot and Richard on twitter. nose is a little different, I think
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 1, 2019 16:16:25 GMT
....... ... ...... So why the fuck was Jon resurrected?? Well without Jon, Winterfell would probably still be under control of the Boltons, Dany would've continued her war against Cersei and lost much more of her army before realising the threat from the North, Arya probably would've killed Cersei and had no reason to go to Winterfell, Melisandre would've resigned herself to death by either Davos' hands or the Night's Watch, and I have no idea what Sansa would've done. So there's a lot to be thankful for. Just because Jon's not the hero doesn't mean he's useless. I just can't agree, anybody could have done this. Especially after viewing The Battle of the Bastards, which was only won due to Littlefinger's army. And with the way things played out on Sunday, I don't see why Arya couldn't just assassinate The Night King. Dany and the Dragons had no pivotal role in the death if the Night King. Everything that transpired in season 6 & 7 could have been handled by Sansa and Arya. If anything, Jon helped the Night King by getting him a dragon to knock down the wall. This plot hole is so big it's almost amusing. I mean we can all try to fix the writing in our head cannon, but we all thought Jon would end the Long Night because of his resurection. Anything else feels like the most egregious example of plot armor ever. How could we all get R+L=J so right, and this so wrong?
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Post by Father of Dragons on May 1, 2019 17:24:31 GMT
Well without Jon, Winterfell would probably still be under control of the Boltons, Dany would've continued her war against Cersei and lost much more of her army before realising the threat from the North, Arya probably would've killed Cersei and had no reason to go to Winterfell, Melisandre would've resigned herself to death by either Davos' hands or the Night's Watch, and I have no idea what Sansa would've done. So there's a lot to be thankful for. Just because Jon's not the hero doesn't mean he's useless. I just can't agree, anybody could have done this. Especially after viewing The Battle of the Bastards, which was only won due to Littlefinger's army. And with the way things played out on Sunday, I don't see why Arya couldn't just assassinate The Night King. I mean we can all try to fix the writing in our head cannon, but we all thought Jon would end the Long Night because of his resurection. Anything else feels like the most egregious example of plot armor ever. How could we all get R+L=J so right, and this so wrong? Well I'm not trying to say that the writers had this planned forever; they only decided Arya would kill the Night King 3 years ago. They brought Jon back from the dead presumably because that was in the outline for the books. I don't think there'll even be a Night King-esque character to be defeated in the books, largely because that's not GRRM's style. In the show, he's there to give a name and recognisable face to the enemy for the audience.
I'm more trying to address (or rather make up) the in-universe reason as to why the Lord of Light brought him back: to bring all those forces together - which nobody else could do simply because nobody cared enough or had the same influence that Jon did. Those wildlings sure weren't going to fight for Littlefinger and Dany is definitely never gonna fall in love with him.
Similar to how Beric was brought back chiefly to save Arya in the moment she needed saving (which was also definitely not thought about when they kept him around), Jon wasn't brought back for some big save-the-day moment but for a specific purpose.
And yeah, it's pretty flimsy writing and clearly hasn't been planned for a super long time, but personally if I can rationalise it in my head, it doesn't really bother me.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 1, 2019 17:30:13 GMT
I just can't agree, anybody could have done this. Especially after viewing The Battle of the Bastards, which was only won due to Littlefinger's army. And with the way things played out on Sunday, I don't see why Arya couldn't just assassinate The Night King. I mean we can all try to fix the writing in our head cannon, but we all thought Jon would end the Long Night because of his resurection. Anything else feels like the most egregious example of plot armor ever. How could we all get R+L=J so right, and this so wrong? Well I'm not trying to say that the writers had this planned forever; they only decided Arya would kill the Night King 3 years ago. They brought Jon back from the dead presumably because that was in the outline for the books. I don't think there'll even be a Night King-esque character to be defeated in the books, largely because that's not GRRM's style. In the show, he's there to give a name and recognisable face to the enemy for the audience.
I'm more trying to address (or rather make up) the in-universe reason as to why the Lord of Light brought him back: to bring all those forces together - which nobody else could do simply because nobody cared enough or had the same influence that Jon did. Those wildlings sure weren't going to fight for Littlefinger and Dany is definitely never gonna fall in love with him.
Similar to how Beric was brought back chiefly to save Arya in the moment she needed saving (which was also definitely not thought about when they kept him around), Jon wasn't brought back for some big save-the-day moment but for a specific purpose.
And yeah, it's pretty flimsy writing and clearly hasn't been planned for a super long time, but personally if I can rationalise it in my head, it doesn't really bother me.
I don't think it's over. There's still the entire Azor Ahai prophecy to be fulfilled. It has to be a Targaryen. There's too much build up just to swerve and say "nah, all that stuff was just a flock of red herrings. Azor Ahai was really the edgy teen with the knife in the garden." The whole thing doesn't add up. The WW have been defeated before as well, and they came back. It doesn't make sense that the Night King survived all these years and emerged now just because. If there's nothing else to it than this, then it's just a real let down.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 1, 2019 17:38:54 GMT
“Azor Ahai” has never been said on the show, so they actually don’t have to resolve that, cause it never started. Mel said Prince Who Was Promised but I guess that’s Arya, cause she ended the long night and brought the dawn and whatever. Remember they did that scene saying the Prince could actually be a princess, so it didn’t come *completely* out of nowhere (just like 98% out of nowhere )
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Post by Enid on May 1, 2019 19:06:06 GMT
As an Arya fan who has been unhappy with how the show portrayed her for so long, I feel vindicated and IDGAF if people didn't like it.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 1, 2019 21:35:31 GMT
“Azor Ahai” has never been said on the show, so they actually don’t have to resolve that, cause it never started. Mel said Prince Who Was Promised but I guess that’s Arya, cause she ended the long night and brought the dawn and whatever. Remember they did that scene saying the Prince could actually be a princess, so it didn’t come *completely* out of nowhere (just like 98% out of nowhere ) The Prince that Was Promised is Azor Ahai though. They're all cultural interpretations of the same myth, just like the Northerners have the tale of the last hero. It just feels like the impact of the person ending the long night (which has been what 9 years of television has been building to) should be a bit more significant. Unless of course it's not yet resolved and, without getting my hopes too high, since Bran and his three eyed raven deal is still ongoing, that may be the case. There just has to be more to it than the Night King waiting up North for like 8000 years, and all these cultures all over the world, somehow developing these same legends of a hero who ends the long night and saves the world.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 1, 2019 21:50:49 GMT
“Azor Ahai” has never been said on the show, so they actually don’t have to resolve that, cause it never started. Mel said Prince Who Was Promised but I guess that’s Arya, cause she ended the long night and brought the dawn and whatever. Remember they did that scene saying the Prince could actually be a princess, so it didn’t come *completely* out of nowhere (just like 98% out of nowhere ) The Prince that Was Promised is Azor Ahai though. They're all cultural interpretations of the same myth, just like the Northerners have the tale of the last hero. It just feels like the impact of the person ending the long night (which has been what 9 years of television has been building to) should be a bit more significant. Unless of course it's not yet resolved and, without getting my hopes too high, since Bran and his three eyed raven deal is still ongoing, that may be the case. There just has to be more to it than the Night King waiting up North for like 8000 years, and all these cultures all over the world, somehow developing these same legends of a hero who ends the long night and saves the world. then watch the prequel, boo.
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 1, 2019 22:05:10 GMT
The Prince that Was Promised is Azor Ahai though. They're all cultural interpretations of the same myth, just like the Northerners have the tale of the last hero. It just feels like the impact of the person ending the long night (which has been what 9 years of television has been building to) should be a bit more significant. Unless of course it's not yet resolved and, without getting my hopes too high, since Bran and his three eyed raven deal is still ongoing, that may be the case. There just has to be more to it than the Night King waiting up North for like 8000 years, and all these cultures all over the world, somehow developing these same legends of a hero who ends the long night and saves the world. then watch the prequel, boo. The prequel... I forgot about that. Have we learnt nothing from Star Wars prequel trilogy or Harry Potter's Fantastic Beast films? Those who do not learn history, are doomed to repeat it.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on May 1, 2019 22:24:56 GMT
The NK also wouldnt have Viserion without Jon’s stupid ass. Show Jon has been a complete dunderhead of bad decisions for ages Lyanna Mormont’s ‘badass’ moment was such a cheesy cringefest too
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 1, 2019 22:30:19 GMT
then watch the prequel, boo. The prequel... I forgot about that. Have we learnt nothing from Star Wars prequel trilogy or Harry Potter's Fantastic Beast films? Those who do not learn history, are doomed to repeat it. i think the prequel will be good as long as they don’t try to juggle too many things. I feel like the mix of fantasy zombie warfare and political intrigue never quite came together in a good way in GoT, so hopefully, if they just stick to horror and fantasy and just tell a really cool story, it should be okay. CVH said she would like to see Melisandre in it, too 🥰🥰🥰
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 1, 2019 23:45:57 GMT
The NK also wouldnt have Viserion without Jon’s stupid ass. Show Jon has been a complete dunderhead of bad decisions for ages Which is what I hated about The Battle of the Bastards. Ned and Rob paid for their tactical blunders. Jon's decisions in this episode should have gotten him killed, but instead he was rewarded with victory thanks to the writing. It was a Peter Jackson battle, and felt very un-ASOIAF to me. The only thing in the back of my mind that could possibly redeem the episode is the thought that a divine power was protecting Jon because he was destined to end the Long Night. Nope. It was just bad writing.
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Post by Singer of Death on May 2, 2019 0:11:29 GMT
To be fair, Jon doesn't want to become the King of the North. He was force to become one since Rickon, who's suppose to be the successor, is dead. D&D even said in Inside the Episode that Jon got out of the battle alive out of sheer luck.
Jon may be a good person who knows how to make companions and allies, but he's extremely terrible with military tactics and strategies and making smart decisions.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 2, 2019 0:16:24 GMT
To be fair, Jon doesn't want to become the King of the North. He was force to become one since Rickon, who's suppose to be the successor, is dead. D&D even said in Inside the Episode that Jon got out of the battle alive out of sheer luck. Jon may be a good person who knows how to make companions and allies, but he's extremely terrible with military tactics and strategies and making smart decisions. I'm not faulting Jon for being a bad strategist, I'm faulting the writers for being inconsistent with consequences characters face for bad decisions. It hurts the verisimilitude of Westeros.
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Post by TheMadQueen on May 2, 2019 0:25:52 GMT
How did he not pay tho?
Their dumbass plan last year cost them a dragon. The Battle of Winterfell claimed like all the Dothraki, a good chunk of the unsullied, what looked like thousands of northmen and freefolk and knights of the vale, probably half the women and children in the crypts, theon, jorah, Lyanna, berric, melisandre...and the survivors will literally never be the same
Idk maybe I’m missing your point but the North definitely did not get off scot free here.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 2, 2019 0:43:07 GMT
How did he not pay tho? Their dumbass plan last year cost them a dragon. The Battle of Winterfell claimed like all the Dothraki, a good chunk of the unsullied, what looked like thousands of northmen and freefolk and knights of the vale, probably half the women and children in the crypts, theon, jorah, Lyanna, berric, melisandre...and the survivors will literally never be the same Idk maybe I’m missing your point but the North definitely did not get off scot free here. Sorry, I was talking about The Battle of the Bastards. I really enjoyed The Long Night.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 2, 2019 3:49:39 GMT
As an Arya fan who has been unhappy with how the show portrayed her for so long, I feel vindicated and IDGAF if people didn't like it. I know you're an Arya fan, and I'm happy for you because this was an awesome episode for her. Season 7 was a mess for her characterization, but seeing her kick ass in the Battle as a fully fledged warrior was amazing, and a long time coming. My issue is more about Jon's role in the story, resurrection is a concept that can be easily abused as a plot device, so I was hoping that the writers were using it wisely. At this point, I'm not satisfied but I'm hoping there is more to come to assuage those fears.
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Post by DaveyJoe on May 2, 2019 3:56:58 GMT
And I'll be sad for TMQ when Cersei dies.
Nothing but love for the Hearties folks.
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