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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 14, 2019 0:31:09 GMT
I don't know a lot about UK politics but it seems like Corbyn was similar to Hilary Clinton. Unpopular with a lot of voters but for whatever reason leading the progressive party? Also he didn't have a clear position on Brexit, seems like the progressive party should have been shouting from the rooftop that the UK should remain. He's got more in common with Bernie than Hillary, although since the US's political centre is probably further to the right than us here, Corbyn would be considered more left-wing than Bernie. I think in 2015 they each wanted the other to do well in their respective elections/nominations. While Blair was leader, Corbyn consistently voted against the leadership on many issues because he saw the party as moving too far to the centre ( which happened thanks to Maggie Thatcher). Like Bernie he was opposed to the Iraq War against the general mood of his party, and like how Bernie was once arrested for protesting for civil rights, Corbyn was once arrested at an anti-Apartheid protest. From my understanding, his opposition to the EU doesn't come from the same place as most Leave voters (none of that jingoistic "TAKE BACK CONTROL!!1!" stuff), but he's always been at least cynical if not outright opposed to the idea of the EU.
I guess it's maybe kinda like how Bernie opposes NAFTA (in agreement with Trump) because it doesn't do enough for American workers? I dunno enough about trade and stuff though, so I don't know if that comparison is accurate. Once he became leader, it should've become clear that his more left-wing ideas would be up for scrutiny as leader of a centre-left party. During the 2016 referendum, he was accused by many of his MPs ( somewhat hypocritically) of not being passionate enough for remaining in the EU, which is probably true given his long history of skepticism. Like I'm not gonna pretend that he probably wasn't happy with the result, but his reasons will likely have differed massively from the average Leave voter. When it comes to this election, you had the Tories pushing hard for the Leave vote (with Boris making that unkeepable promise), the Liberal Democrats ("economically right, socially left" is I think the description? They enabled Cameron in 2010 though so that's unforgivable) pushing hard for the Remain vote since they have no chance at winning outright anyway, so Labour had basically 3 options: (1) Fight the LDs (and SNP) for the remain vote, but alienate traditional Labour voters who voted to Leave in 2016 and still voted Labour in 2017 (2) Fight the Tories for the leave vote, but alienate the younger Labour supporters who think Brexit is a total disaster
(3) Try to please everyone, but inadvertently piss everyone off (they went for this one) Their stance for (3) was "hey, the people in 2016 voted for Brexit, so we should at least try. Anything from a Tory government would be bad, but if you give us a shot, we'll try to get a better deal in 3 months and give you the option to either leave with that, or remain". The response from most of the country was evidently
I could go into more detail about why Corbyn specifically is unpopular, the reasons of which range from totally legitimate criticisms to baseless propaganda from our billionaire-owned press, but I've spent the better part of an hour typing this and I'm shattered. Ask again tomorrow if you're still interested and not put off by my ramblings
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Post by Enid on Dec 14, 2019 10:49:58 GMT
I'm sorry UK people. All I can say is that I hope your new government doesn't screw you over, and hopefully things won't be as bad as they look now.
We're finally done with elections, we're going to have a cooperative government formed by center and left wing parties, but on the other hand the right-side parties are becoming more radical, and right now ideological followers of a fascist dictator have a significant amount of representation in parliament.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 14, 2019 17:05:22 GMT
Re-reading that again in hindsight, I don't want to come across as too apologetic for the Labour campaign, and specifically the way Corbyn has run the party. Like it was a mess from very early on. He never really tried to counter any of the hostility from the press and seemed happy enough to assume people knew better, which was very naive of him. That sort of passive attitude led those skeptical of his leadership to either see him as too weak to stand up for himself, or that everything said about him in the press was true.
I do still think it's important to note that Labour got more votes than in 2015, 2010 (two losses) and 2005 (their last win), which really makes me believe it's a Brexit-related issue, but again I don't want to excuse the leadership too much because ultimately losing the north of England is also related to Corbyn himself.
Well, at least I've got Nicola.
I'm sorry UK people. All I can say is that I hope your new government doesn't screw you over, and hopefully things won't be as bad as they look now. We're finally done with elections, we're going to have a cooperative government formed by center and left wing parties, but on the other hand the right-side parties are becoming more radical, and right now ideological followers of a fascist dictator have a significant amount of representation in parliament. Vox is the far-right party right? It's terrifying to see that they came third in your election. I'd known that Spain had a dictator in WWII, but I wasn't actually aware that he lasted until the 70s until the recent news about his exhumation. We can only hope that your new government is able to work effectively before the far right become more emboldened.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Dec 14, 2019 20:33:20 GMT
Too late to hope our government doesn’t screw us over. They already are, and this one is just the same as before but this time with more power. Enid, sorry to hear about the far right parties and various other troubling elements. I don’t know much at all about Spanish politics - is the make up of the current government a net positive do you think? And are they likely to get much of their agenda pushed through? The British people (me included) ought to take more interest in Spanish politics actually, now i mention it. From what i understand it is Spain who are likely to make Brexit more problematic for Britain for a number of reasons, including but not limited to Gibraltar. Going to do some reading up i think
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Post by kingeomer on Dec 17, 2019 11:46:43 GMT
I want to thank you for explaining more about what's going on in the UK and Spain.
It's scary to me that the Far Right is becoming emboldened everywhere.
Is it likely that Scotland will vote to leave the UK now?
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 17, 2019 16:27:22 GMT
Is it likely that Scotland will vote to leave the UK now? Hard to say. I'm not sure if there are any polls on that since the election, but it won't really matter if Boris doesn't grant the Scottish government a referendum. He'll almost certainly not approve anything before the next Holyrood (Scottish Parliament) election in 2021, but even if the SNP sweep that election too I'm kinda doubtful Boris will budge. And if he did, I'm also doubtful whether the momentum the SNP have just now would stick for another 2+ years.
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Post by kingeomer on Dec 19, 2019 11:57:59 GMT
Well the House of Representatives did their job and impeached the fool. Shame the Senate won't because if they did, he would be removed from office.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 20, 2019 11:56:14 GMT
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Post by kingeomer on Dec 20, 2019 12:07:40 GMT
Tulsi is a Russian plant. I swear she is.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 20, 2019 14:33:32 GMT
Although it would be very convenient if it were true, I don't think she's explicitly a Russian plant or spoiler or whatever. The stuff that she believes (if you only look at it on the surface) is stuff that I've seen in a lot of different places. Her support for Assad for instance could be construed as coming from a position of "the US always does wrong in these conflicts" but taken up to 11.
She's realised that she can only get so much support from Bernie supporters, so now she's gone full anti-establishment, but while also going for the centre? It's bizarre, it's as if she's going for libertarians and not democrats.
That said even if she'd not taken this non-stance on impeachment there's a shitload of stuff that's incredibly sketchy at best about her.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Dec 20, 2019 20:46:54 GMT
Well Parliament is off to a grand old start, no doubt this is a taste of the next five years. Thank fuck i found a decent employer who will provide my health cover and mental welfare because in five years time i fully expect the Tories to have stripped that kind of thing bare
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Post by kingeomer on Jan 3, 2020 14:38:59 GMT
So the dipshits in Washington may have started WWIII? Wag the Dog anyone?
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Post by kingeomer on Jan 7, 2020 11:53:36 GMT
Iran is stating that they will go after Trump properties. Not sure how true that is. I want to say go for it but then I say there are innocent people who go there and work there, I don't want them to be injured or die because of that thing in the White House.
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Post by Enid on Jan 7, 2020 14:18:11 GMT
Re-reading that again in hindsight, I don't want to come across as too apologetic for the Labour campaign, and specifically the way Corbyn has run the party. Like it was a mess from very early on. He never really tried to counter any of the hostility from the press and seemed happy enough to assume people knew better, which was very naive of him. That sort of passive attitude led those skeptical of his leadership to either see him as too weak to stand up for himself, or that everything said about him in the press was true.
I do still think it's important to note that Labour got more votes than in 2015, 2010 (two losses) and 2005 (their last win), which really makes me believe it's a Brexit-related issue, but again I don't want to excuse the leadership too much because ultimately losing the north of England is also related to Corbyn himself.
Well, at least I've got Nicola.
I'm sorry UK people. All I can say is that I hope your new government doesn't screw you over, and hopefully things won't be as bad as they look now. We're finally done with elections, we're going to have a cooperative government formed by center and left wing parties, but on the other hand the right-side parties are becoming more radical, and right now ideological followers of a fascist dictator have a significant amount of representation in parliament. Vox is the far-right party right? It's terrifying to see that they came third in your election. I'd known that Spain had a dictator in WWII, but I wasn't actually aware that he lasted until the 70s until the recent news about his exhumation. We can only hope that your new government is able to work effectively before the far right become more emboldened. Oh yeah. He lasted for decades, even though he had help from the nazi party to win the civil war (Spain was used as a test field for nazi war machinery) and created a political regime based on the oppression and destruction of basically anyone who wasn't a hetero, white, cis, far right man. But he didn't have any desire to conquer foreign countries, and removing him could lead to a socialist/communist government, so he was allowed to stay. But the country was also force to survive in autarky for years after the war because is not acceptable to make deals with a fascist country. I'm sorry, but that part of our history makes me choke with the injustice of it all. And yes, VOX is the political party that wants to bring us back to the 50's. Luckily we finally managed to get a left-wing government, although the voting was so tight, is doubtful they will be able to actually do anything (they won the investiture vote by two votes, 167 against 165 and 18 abstentions). My hope is that VOX will burn itself in the next few years so by the time the next elections come along they are back to being a joke, like they use to be.
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Post by kingeomer on Jan 8, 2020 12:06:30 GMT
And Iran attacked US bases in Iraq.
I hate that thing in the White House. I hate him so much.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Jan 8, 2020 21:49:09 GMT
And Iran attacked US bases in Iraq. I hate that thing in the White House. I hate him so much. Fortunately there does not seem to have been any casualties. Likely to be deliberate on Iran’s part. They strike back at the U.S so they look strong on home turf but their strike backs are bloodless, potentially giving them some kind of higher ground internationally but more importantly avoiding further escalation. Or at least, they’d have avoided escalation if the U.S had a rational president. Fingers crossed that is still the case with Trump in charge. The man is a blustering bumbling fool but i have to maintain some small hope that someone will restrain him, somehow.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Jan 14, 2020 1:02:05 GMT
I’m hearing from sources that Bernie Sanders said the final season of GoT was good. He’ll never recover from this.
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Post by kingeomer on Jan 14, 2020 11:59:18 GMT
I’m hearing from sources that Bernie Sanders said the final season of GoT was good. He’ll never recover from this. There goes his campaign. Cory Booker, re Bernie liking season 8 of GOT,: You tell him it was me. I want him to know it was me. Trump now says it does not matter that an attack was really not imminent in the killing of the Iranian general. Plus we allegedly got paid 1B from Saudi Arabia to have forces there. Huh?
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Post by Father of Dragons on Jan 15, 2020 13:57:23 GMT
Fun Very fun and fair
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Post by kingeomer on Feb 12, 2020 11:47:58 GMT
Trump is unfettered now. Thanks a lot crooked senate republicans.
After two primaries, looks like Bernie and Pete are going to be the democratic frontrunners. Andrew Yang has suspended his campaign.
Unless he wins the rest of the primaries, it's not looking too hot for Biden (or Warren).
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