|
|
Post by DaveyJoe on Aug 14, 2017 18:02:55 GMT
P.S: And what the actual fuck is Kevin Eldon doing as a Lannister soldier when he was a member of the Braavos theatre troop last season? Undercover actor, or are they recycling their bit part players? He's a faceless man. ...ex-faceless man. RIP  |
|
|
|
Post by Singer of Death on Aug 14, 2017 19:03:23 GMT
I finally get to watch it with my cousin! Apparently she already watched it yesterday without me and i was furious with her (she's just lazy and all).
Some things we generally like:
-Gendry! We were so excited to see Gentry is finally back and he has change so much since the last time we saw him. I know some people are complaining about the sudden change of character, but i get that it's due to how long we haven't seen him and Gndry might have already accepted his identity as a Baratheon bastard very confidently (possibly cuz Gentry has always been seeking his own identity)
-Jorah's scene with Dany. The chemistry between Jorah and Dany is very emotional (not surprisely my friend shipped them lol)
-The last scene with Jon's men and the Brotherhood. The interactions between them felt very invested and real and i loved the execution of it.
Some things i don't like (for me personally, my friend didn't have much to say about the cons):
-Arya is a dumbass in this episode
-the way they reveal the annulment part felt so unnecessary and rush.
-Dany's scene with the Tarlys and Davos with the Lannister guards felt contrive
So me and my friend are giving it a 7.
|
|
|
|
Post by boojam on Aug 14, 2017 20:56:12 GMT
P.S: And what the actual fuck is Kevin Eldon doing as a Lannister soldier when he was a member of the Braavos theatre troop last season? Undercover actor, or are they recycling their bit part players? He's a faceless man. ...ex-faceless man. RIP I like Gendry's warhammer, but look more like something the Zom-Mountain would have, expected something sleeker . |
|
|
|
Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 14, 2017 21:56:30 GMT
Gendry looks like he bought his warhammer at party city  |
|
|
|
Post by Enid on Aug 14, 2017 22:04:21 GMT
Gendry's warhammer is cool as fuck and the way he played whack-a-head with those two assholes was epic  |
|
|
|
Post by Father of Dragons on Aug 14, 2017 22:16:17 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Aug 14, 2017 23:19:58 GMT
I love how salty we all are this year. The show's managed to shit on at least one of everybody's favorite characters.  I'm still salty over Cat booboo You think you know salty? Ha! Also, MadQueen is lucky enough to not have his favourite shat on   |
|
|
|
Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Aug 15, 2017 0:29:23 GMT
I love how salty we all are this year. The show's managed to shit on at least one of everybody's favorite characters. They can't shit on the (allegedly ) dead! |
|
|
|
Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 15, 2017 1:34:42 GMT
I love how salty we all are this year. The show's managed to shit on at least one of everybody's favorite characters. I'm still salty over Cat booboo You think you know salty? Ha! Also, MadQueen is lucky enough to not have his favourite shat on Bc how could you hate this??  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 6:10:56 GMT
And just like that, a single tear fell from Father of Dragons face as the Baratheon house lives on. God bless you Robert and your whoring ways. And for killing fucking Rhaegar. That emo doucecock derserved the heavy beating after what he did. Rhaegar was selfish and made stupid decisions but he wasn't a bad person, or never reported to be cruel. The anullment doesn't change my view on him, in fact it kind of makes him better in imo, seems like he did love Lyanna and wanted to do things right and marry her. His mistake was leaving Elia and his children at the Red Keep and not killing the Mad King. Although there's no possible way he could have known the Mountain and Tywin's men would rape and murder them. |
|
|
|
Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Aug 15, 2017 9:13:36 GMT
And for killing fucking Rhaegar. That emo doucecock derserved the heavy beating after what he did. Rhaegar was selfish and made stupid decisions but he wasn't a bad person, or never reported to be cruel. The anullment doesn't change my view on him, in fact it kind of makes him better in imo, seems like he did love Lyanna and wanted to do things right and marry her. His mistake was leaving Elia and his children at the Red Keep and not killing the Mad King. Although there's no possible way he could have known the Mountain and Tywin's men would rape and murder them. Agree with this completely. Nothing in this episode really changes my view on Rhaegar, who I neither hate nor love. Criticising him for annulling the marriage to Elia and marrying Lyanna comes from a very narrow and conservative view of relationships and romantic attraction. As you say, his mistake was leaving Elia at the Red Keep and not removing Aerys sooner (I say sooner because I'm a firm believer such a plan was in the works). But I don't think that makes him a terrible person. What bothers me most, in both books and the show, is why neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna seem to have got word out that they were (apparently) very much in love and it was all consensual. I know there are theories that they did attempt to do that. I hope we find out. My opinion of them both will drop greatly if they both just allowed the kingdom to burn around them because reasons. in the books I kind of hope its a polygamy situation rather than an annulment. I don't think the show has gone much into historical polygamous marriages has it? |
|
|
|
Post by kingeomer on Aug 15, 2017 11:05:09 GMT
Rhaegar was selfish and made stupid decisions but he wasn't a bad person, or never reported to be cruel. The anullment doesn't change my view on him, in fact it kind of makes him better in imo, seems like he did love Lyanna and wanted to do things right and marry her. His mistake was leaving Elia and his children at the Red Keep and not killing the Mad King. Although there's no possible way he could have known the Mountain and Tywin's men would rape and murder them. Agree with this completely. Nothing in this episode really changes my view on Rhaegar, who I neither hate nor love. Criticising him for annulling the marriage to Elia and marrying Lyanna comes from a very narrow and conservative view of relationships and romantic attraction. As you say, his mistake was leaving Elia at the Red Keep and not removing Aerys sooner (I say sooner because I'm a firm believer such a plan was in the works). But I don't think that makes him a terrible person. What bothers me most, in both books and the show, is why neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna seem to have got word out that they were (apparently) very much in love and it was all consensual. I know there are theories that they did attempt to do that. I hope we find out. My opinion of them both will drop greatly if they both just allowed the kingdom to burn around them because reasons. in the books I kind of hope its a polygamy situation rather than an annulment. I don't think the show has gone much into historical polygamous marriages has it? The show has not gone into historical polygamous marriages and I don't think the book has either. I am choosing to think Rhaegar and Lyanna just ran out of time to get the word out-things escalated pretty quickly and then they were dead. It's obvious word of the true nature of their relationship didn't reach her family since even Ned's kids say she was raped. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2017 23:14:04 GMT
Rhaegar was selfish and made stupid decisions but he wasn't a bad person, or never reported to be cruel. The anullment doesn't change my view on him, in fact it kind of makes him better in imo, seems like he did love Lyanna and wanted to do things right and marry her. His mistake was leaving Elia and his children at the Red Keep and not killing the Mad King. Although there's no possible way he could have known the Mountain and Tywin's men would rape and murder them. Agree with this completely. Nothing in this episode really changes my view on Rhaegar, who I neither hate nor love. Criticising him for annulling the marriage to Elia and marrying Lyanna comes from a very narrow and conservative view of relationships and romantic attraction. As you say, his mistake was leaving Elia at the Red Keep and not removing Aerys sooner (I say sooner because I'm a firm believer such a plan was in the works). But I don't think that makes him a terrible person. What bothers me most, in both books and the show, is why neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna seem to have got word out that they were (apparently) very much in love and it was all consensual. I know there are theories that they did attempt to do that. I hope we find out. My opinion of them both will drop greatly if they both just allowed the kingdom to burn around them because reasons. in the books I kind of hope its a polygamy situation rather than an annulment. I don't think the show has gone much into historical polygamous marriages has it? I'm not sure, i actually don't see the difference between polygamy and annulment. Jon is the only one alive in the show anyway and honestly it has no impact on the events of the story either in the books or the show. Is polygamy somehow better than annulment ? lol maybe i just don't get it or not enough invested into the issue. |
|
|
|
Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Aug 15, 2017 23:29:20 GMT
Agree with this completely. Nothing in this episode really changes my view on Rhaegar, who I neither hate nor love. Criticising him for annulling the marriage to Elia and marrying Lyanna comes from a very narrow and conservative view of relationships and romantic attraction. As you say, his mistake was leaving Elia at the Red Keep and not removing Aerys sooner (I say sooner because I'm a firm believer such a plan was in the works). But I don't think that makes him a terrible person. What bothers me most, in both books and the show, is why neither Rhaegar nor Lyanna seem to have got word out that they were (apparently) very much in love and it was all consensual. I know there are theories that they did attempt to do that. I hope we find out. My opinion of them both will drop greatly if they both just allowed the kingdom to burn around them because reasons. in the books I kind of hope its a polygamy situation rather than an annulment. I don't think the show has gone much into historical polygamous marriages has it? I'm not sure, i actually don't see the difference between polygamy and annulment. Jon is the only one alive in the show anyway and honestly it has no impact on the events of the story either in the books or the show. Is polygamy somehow better than annulment ? lol maybe i just don't get it or not enough invested into the issue. A few reasons, none of them particularly important or relevant to the show (which is why I don't mind if the show has changed/simplified it to the books). First, I think the idea of a ploygamous relationship is just more interesting in general, particularly if it wasn't with Elia's consent, understanding that either Rhaegar loved Lyanna or it was necessary because of prophecy. Second, in the books it's established how difficult it is to set aside a marriage - must be a High Septon or Council of Faith, there must be some reason etc. So I don't think it would be too likely that such a thing would be kept secret for so long. Third, and I may be wrong about this, but my understanding of anullment is that it makes the marriage as though it never happened...including illegitimising the children of that marriage. Which doesn't fit, imo, with Rhaegar's three heads of the dragon stuff. He wants three legitimate children, and I think a polygamous marriage would probably make more sense in the books than an anullment would. As I said though, the anullment is fine in the show. Just the way they introduced it which I found stupid |
|
|
|
Post by DaveyJoe on Aug 16, 2017 0:31:07 GMT
In the US, you can only get an annulment if the marriage hasn't been consummated. I'm not sure if it's different in other countries or had other stipulations in historical times that might have influenced ASOIAF. I believe there can be other extenuating circumstances, like if you can prove your partner is incompetent. Either way, an annulment of a royal marriage would have to be perceived as a slight towards Elia in Westeros, especially after giving Rhaegar two heirs, one of which being a male.
I'd love to get some more details and would really love to see some Bran flashbacks with Rhaegar and/or Lyanna/Elia. I fear we might be putting more thought into it than the writers though. I wager they need to make Jon legitimate in the context of the show, and they're not too concerned with how the circumstances might reflect on Rhaegar who is pretty much a non-character on the show.
|
|
|
|
Post by TheMadQueen on Aug 16, 2017 2:25:52 GMT
If the Crown Prince of the seven kingdoms tells you to annul his marriage, you annul his marriage.
For all we know, Rhaegar "convinced" him with a knife to the throat or something.
|
|
|
|
Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Aug 16, 2017 10:03:49 GMT
In the US, you can only get an annulment if the marriage hasn't been consummated. I'm not sure if it's different in other countries or had other stipulations in historical times that might have influenced ASOIAF. I believe there can be other extenuating circumstances, like if you can prove your partner is incompetent. Either way, an annulment of a royal marriage would have to be perceived as a slight towards Elia in Westeros, especially after giving Rhaegar two heirs, one of which being a male. I'd love to get some more details and would really love to see some Bran flashbacks with Rhaegar and/or Lyanna/Elia. I fear we might be putting more thought into it than the writers though. I wager they need to make Jon legitimate in the context of the show, and they're not too concerned with how the circumstances might reflect on Rhaegar who is pretty much a non-character on the show.I agree with this. I believe there are other reasons for anullment historically in the U.K. at least. Though they're a bit dubious. See Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon TheMadQueen, not necessarily true. Even in real life there are many examples of the Church/Pope defying a monarch and refusing to annul a marriage. Being royalty doesn't necessarily guarantee compliance on these things, so there ought to be some reason behind the anullment rather than just 'Rhaegar says so' As Davey said though I'm thinking more about it that will likely be dealt with in the show. They simply need Jon to be legitimate, so he is now |
|
|
|
Post by Enid on Aug 16, 2017 10:22:08 GMT
The reason the "Rhaegar annulled his marriage to Elia" bothers me is because is such an easy way to make Jon legitimate, and the Martells always get the short end of the stick in the show. Elia was raped and murdered for being Rhaegar's wife and the mother of his children, but now it turns out she wasn't his wife anymore when that happened and her two children were made bastards by their own father. Maybe the show is simply using annulment with the same meaning as divorced, but still. Elia's fate was tragic enough, now is even more so.
Is also weird that the High Septon was able to travel to Dorne during war time with no one wondering why he had to go on the first place. Or that the annulment of a royal marriage and a new royal marriage weren't discovered before Gilly found that diary by pure chance.
I understand that the show never explained Targaryen polygamy (I'm not even sure they've said Aegon the Conqueror was married his two sisters) and annulling Rhaegar and Elia's marriage is the quickest way to solve the issue of Jon's legitimacy (guess we'll find out why that matters at all sooner or later) but it was done in such a hurried way.
Another example of how the new pace is a bad thing for the show
|
|
|
|
Post by Basil on Aug 16, 2017 10:32:58 GMT
I personally don't have any problems with the annulment itself (I mean, let's be real, we've always known that Rhaegar was probably kind of a dick). But the way the show chose to reveal that factoid, by having a character like Gilly randomly stumble across this crucial piece of information in a book, and casually mentioning it to Sam, it feels like incredibly lazy storytelling to me.
|
|
|
|
Post by kingeomer on Aug 16, 2017 11:43:34 GMT
In the US, you can only get an annulment if the marriage hasn't been consummated. I'm not sure if it's different in other countries or had other stipulations in historical times that might have influenced ASOIAF. I believe there can be other extenuating circumstances, like if you can prove your partner is incompetent. Either way, an annulment of a royal marriage would have to be perceived as a slight towards Elia in Westeros, especially after giving Rhaegar two heirs, one of which being a male. I'd love to get some more details and would really love to see some Bran flashbacks with Rhaegar and/or Lyanna/Elia. I fear we might be putting more thought into it than the writers though. I wager they need to make Jon legitimate in the context of the show, and they're not too concerned with how the circumstances might reflect on Rhaegar who is pretty much a non-character on the show. I will add, though this is within the Catholic church (in order for my Mom to marry my stepdad in the church, she had to get her first two marriages annulled and I believe to marry her, he had to get one of his marriages annulled), consummated marriages can be annulled by the church for a variety of reasons and I think they have relaxed the requirements of annulment recently so more divorced Catholics could get remarried within the church and also receive Eucharist. For example, my mother's first two marriages were abusive (she wasn't a Catholic when she was married to the first two husbands either) and she could use that as grounds for annulment of those marriages...but because at the time she needed the ex-husbands to sign off on the annulment-they certainly weren't going to be on the record as abusers, so I think the official reason was not married in good faith or something like that. But back to the show, this is what I don't get about the whole annulment thing. Elia's children would have been declared illegitimate. An annulment casts her completely aside. Royal son or not, if the Red Wedding taught us anything, it is people get very unhappy in Westeros when even marriage agreements are set aside. I know the show wants to make Jon legit by any means necessary but this is a dumb way to do it. Why couldn't they use Jon (and Gendry) to show that the quality of a person matters more then their birthright??? |
|
