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Post by TheMadQueen on Jul 8, 2016 19:09:20 GMT
In our (year long) downtime between seasons, I thought we could look back on season 6 and talk about character journeys. This show is well known for putting characters through the wringer, and I think that's what a lot of season five was. We saw characters brought to their lowest (Jon stabbed by his brothers, Sansa a sex slave in her own home, Cersei abandoned and humiliated, Daenerys stranded in the desert). But in season six, we saw some comebacks in some big ways. Here, I'm gonna give my own favorite arcs, and then y'all can join in. Jon Snow Our favorite bastard literally starts off dead, lying in a puddle of blood and snow. Betrayed by his brothers and his friends, he is killed alone in the night. His body is recovered, and is eventually resurrected by the disgraced Priestess Melisandre. He is brought back to life, and quickly reunited with his sister, in one of the most touching moments of the series. From there, he goes on to launch a campaign to take his father's home back, and deliver his sister's tormentor to justice. He unites Wildlings, Giants, and Northmen. In a spectacular battle, where he watches his baby brother die, Jon Snow and his sister rise above the odds and defeat the Boltons and reclaim Winterfell for the Starks. As is the Stark way, he is bound by honor and justice to banish Melisandre, arguably his most valuable ally and entire reason for life, from the North, for the ill-advised sacrifice of a young princess. His hard choice is rewarded, when he finally unites the entirety of the North. Keeping his eye on the prize, he warns of the true threat, the White Walkers. To his and Sansa's surprise, the Great Hall of Winterfell erupts in voices proclaiming him "King in the North," the White Wolf sent to lead them through the long night.  Cersei Lannister Cersei begins season six isolated, humiliated, and looked down upon, confined to a tower in the Red Keep as the Small Council ignores her and the common people laugh at her. Her misery is only added upon when Myrcella, her only glimmer of hope, returns to her as a corpse. From this rock bottom, the only place to go is up. Struggling to retain control, she attempts to gain the upper hand by freeing her rival Queen Margaery, but is frustrated to learn her own son has been seduced by her enemy, and has become an ally of the High Sparrow. With the old man thwarting her at every turn, Cersei plans to make short work of the Sparrows in a trial by combat, with Ser Gregor Clegane fighting for her honor in a trial by combat. Before her plan comes to fruition, she is shocked to hear her own son publicly forbid this action, and sentence her to trial by seven Septons, which he and everyone else knows is as good as a death sentence. Refusing to go down like that, she hatches a scheme. In a chilling scene, she watches coldly from the Red Keep as the Sept of Baelor, and all her enemies inside, go up in flames. The sheer brutality of the display drives her last child to kill himself, but her mind and heart are broken beyond repair, and she merely seizes his crown for herself, and ascends the Iron Throne as the first formally recognized female ruler in history.  Daenerys Targaryen Dany starts out a prisoner, marching through the desert, suffering whipping and rape threats at every turn. Ever defiant and confident, she calmly informs her captors she will not be touched, and after informing them of who she is, is pleased to hear them apologize for their behavior. However, she is still forced to be judged before the Dosh Khaleen, an isolated sect of Dothraki widows who live and die in a temple in Vaes Dothrak. The Dosh Khaleen offer her to the Khals, who plan to use her for themselves. In an act of power never seen before, she smiles and she burns them all to death. She confidently emerges from the fire, naked and unburnt, as the Dothraki fall to their knees. She returns to Mereen with fire and blood, breaking a siege and inheriting an army. She makes her first formal alliance with a Westerosi house, and even names a Hand of the Queen. She is forced to abandon Daario, and is shocked by her own indifference to such a heartbreaking event. Regardless, other alliances are made on her behalf, and she finally sets sail for Westeros with a massive armada.  So thanks for bearing with me, what do you think? |
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Post by day dreamer on Jul 8, 2016 19:21:42 GMT
Jon's arc was definitely one of my favorites as well, as was Dany's because she took control and FINALLY left Essos.
Cersei's arc had great pay off, but it took a while to get there.
I also liked Bran's. How he got to learn about being a Greenseeer more and more, but when it comes to being put through the ringer, he's a season behind, so this was his hard one, losing Hodor, Summer, Bloodraven and Leaf.
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on Jul 9, 2016 1:41:33 GMT
A - Cersei, Tommen
B - Edmure, Olenna, Balon, Bran
C - Margaery, Jaime, Sansa, Ramsay, Dany, Sandor, Sam, Varys, Daario, Jorah, Qyburn, Davos
D - Kevan, Lancel, Ellaria, Asha, Theon, Jon, Tyrion, Melisandre, High Sparrow, Tormund, Blackfish, Walder
F - Arya, Littlefinger, Grey Worm, Missandei, Brienne, Bronn
Cersei's is arguably the best, going from the Queen that was to the Queen that is, she managed to cut her way through the muck using her tact and a gift to outplay her opponent, ultimately costing her however dearly in her pursuit to win, she shrugged off the baggage of Maggy at the end through disaster
Tommen went from being used last year, to becoming tormented, to used again, to depressed, to eventually being unable to cope with depression. The story has seemed to get close to depression before with characters, but Tommen's is a sad reality that it's not always blades and knives that can do the most harm. And since it's a book invention, it gets more props that it ultimately had a purpose and use to an older Tommen rather than the younger 8 year old in the books.
Edmure and Balon might not have had much to do, but they continued their stories in fitting ways with great acting, writing, everything - only limited by their screen time.
Bran's was very good for a character just coming back.
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C's all have problems to the arcs such as Margaery never making it really clear on-screen what her plan was, Jaime coasted again because D&D like to have him in this spot of the good and bad guy who does good and bad things, Sansa's rift with Jon was rather forced, but otherwise she would have been an A, Ramsay fulfilled his role of being Ramsay, but didn't have much to do and weird scenes like just to have Osha get killed. His character didn't really advance.
Dany mostly just took care of business. There weren't a whole lot of struggles for her along the way despite how visually appealing things looked. Sandor's was good but he went back to violence and arguably too much time was spent on a minor character to reintroduce him into the story. Sam move well but slow and confusing reason for taking Heartsbane makes little sense.
Without going into all the others - Tyrion didn't have much to do and had a few meh scenes in there.
Jon didn't have an arc. He came back to life as Jon Snow and then went through a bunch of political motions where he personally failed and Davos picked up his slack. Jon eventually stumbled into victory through Sansa and a Kingship for no real earned reason other than he was at the head of it. In S5, Jon was murdered for doing everything right (while his betraying of his oath in marching on Winterfell was omitted). Part of the complaints at the time where that Jon's arc really lacked the thematic point that there are consequences to actions, rather than just consequences happening. In S6, Jon failed for the most part, but ultimately was rewarded with a kingdom. They've kind of got Jon all twisted around backwards.
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Post by kingeomer on Jul 9, 2016 12:47:41 GMT
A - Cersei, Tommen B - Edmure, Olenna, Balon, Bran C - Margaery, Jaime, Sansa, Ramsay, Dany, Sandor, Sam, Varys, Daario, Jorah, Qyburn, Davos D - Kevan, Lancel, Ellaria, Asha, Theon, Jon, Tyrion, Melisandre, High Sparrow, Tormund, Blackfish, Walder F - Arya, Littlefinger, Grey Worm, Missandei, Brienne, Bronn Cersei's is arguably the best, going from the Queen that was to the Queen that is, she managed to cut her way through the muck using her tact and a gift to outplay her opponent, ultimately costing her however dearly in her pursuit to win, she shrugged off the baggage of Maggy at the end through disaster Tommen went from being used last year, to becoming tormented, to used again, to depressed, to eventually being unable to cope with depression. The story has seemed to get close to depression before with characters, but Tommen's is a sad reality that it's not always blades and knives that can do the most harm. And since it's a book invention, it gets more props that it ultimately had a purpose and use to an older Tommen rather than the younger 8 year old in the books. Edmure and Balon might not have had much to do, but they continued their stories in fitting ways with great acting, writing, everything - only limited by their screen time. Bran's was very good for a character just coming back. ------ C's all have problems to the arcs such as Margaery never making it really clear on-screen what her plan was, Jaime coasted again because D&D like to have him in this spot of the good and bad guy who does good and bad things, Sansa's rift with Jon was rather forced, but otherwise she would have been an A, Ramsay fulfilled his role of being Ramsay, but didn't have much to do and weird scenes like just to have Osha get killed. His character didn't really advance. Dany mostly just took care of business. There weren't a whole lot of struggles for her along the way despite how visually appealing things looked. Sandor's was good but he went back to violence and arguably too much time was spent on a minor character to reintroduce him into the story. Sam move well but slow and confusing reason for taking Heartsbane makes little sense. Without going into all the others - Tyrion didn't have much to do and had a few meh scenes in there. Jon didn't have an arc. He came back to life as Jon Snow and then went through a bunch of political motions where he personally failed and Davos picked up his slack. Jon eventually stumbled into victory through Sansa and a Kingship for no real earned reason other than he was at the head of it. In S5, Jon was murdered for doing everything right (while his betraying of his oath in marching on Winterfell was omitted). Part of the complaints at the time where that Jon's arc really lacked the thematic point that there are consequences to actions, rather than just consequences happening. In S6, Jon failed for the most part, but ultimately was rewarded with a kingdom. They've kind of got Jon all twisted around backwards.I have to agree about Jon. Death left him little changed. Maybe a little more hesitant and maybe a little more stubborn, I don't know. I don't feel like he had much of an arc other then coming back from the dead, being convinced to take back Winterfell, failing to get much of an army, losing the battle if not for the Vale army, and getting named King in the North. Davos, as much as I love him, really did not seem to have much of an arc either. Somehow he's insistent that Mel resurrect Jon and it's little explained as to why Jon has Davos instant devotion. However the scene where Davos finds out what happens to Shireen and confronting Mel and Jon about it was well done...but it was also closing a thread that had been hanging since season 5. Mel was little seen after the beginning of the season...but she starts off doubting her abilities, we see her true age and when she is able to bring Jon back, realizing she was wrong about Stannis but firm that she's doing her God's will. We see her banished from the North in the end. I thought she had a good arc. I feel like Cersei and Tommen also had good arcs, especially after the finale. Cersei got her revenge on the High Sparrow for her humiliation with the Walk of Shame but it cost her so much-her alliance with the Tyrells (which was already falling apart), her son, cousin and uncle, and possibly the love of her brother. She's the Queen of Westeros now seemingly sitting on top of the world...but we all know the ground is rapidly shifting beneath her. Bran was probably my favorite---a kid with extraordinary powers who takes it too far and winds up costing his friend his life and his teacher his life. Now Bran has to learn how to use this power on his own and how to temper it. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 14:01:02 GMT
Cersei was my favorite character this season, and I enjoyed her arc, but this season was so connected to last season in her case, I don't think it's the best "arc" of the season. It will probably end up being one of the best overall when the series is done. I enjoyed Dany's arc this season as well, although like Cersei's arc, you don't really see the growth here in this season alone. Hers will be the overall story that shows the most direct steady climb from powerless to empowered, I think. I do feel myself getting a little bored with how obviously perfectly everything is coming together for Dany. It had to happen eventually, but struggle is more interesting to watch. I think that's why Jon's was my favorite this season. At first I was disappointed that his death didn't seem to change him much, but watching the whole season, I see that it did change him. It took away all illusions he had that doing the right thing, the honorable thing would pay off in the end. He died for his principles just like Ned. But unlike Ned, there was someone magical there to bring him back from the dead and give him a second chance. Like Beric, something is missing from him, parts are chipped away. People he trusted murdered him and he is in the bizarre position of living with that. His fear is gone. His illusions are gone. His commitment to the Watch or the Starks or the North...those commitments all seem tenuous to me. He left the Watch. He had to be convinced to take back Winterfell. We haven't yet seen his reaction to being named King of the North, but I thought he looked conflicted. He's lost his direction, and I think he will find it again when he learns the secret that we learned. Of course, it also helps move the plot along, because it frees him from his vows and allows him to marry and hold titles. Some people seem really annoyed by that and keep calling it a plot device, but I dunno, twists have to happen in plots for conflicts to occur and stories to move. I think it's been foreshadowed in the books and on the show from the very beginning that Jon would rise high in the Watch and be betrayed. I never thought Jon would remain with the Watch forever.  Bran's story is the most interesting to me because he's a font of secrets, but other than Hodor's death, I didn't find his arc that well crafted this season. I guess it too is a longer arc without a tidy one for season 6. Sam's story has been pretty tangential to this point. The last episode made me think he's about to become very important and also serve as someone who can answer mysteries. |
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Post by Belle on Jul 9, 2016 14:41:07 GMT
I'm gonna say Jon and Cersei. (just like season 5 lol)
I love Dany and Arya but I found most of Dany's scenes and speeches painful this season. Ant ehy totally fucked up Arya's arc from eps 7-10.
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Post by TheMadQueen on Jul 9, 2016 19:16:57 GMT
I haven't seen much of how Jon has changed personality-wise, but he definitely has some more issues. He doesn't want to die again, he knows what that's like, and he knows how empty and cold that is. So he's gonna fight, and get as brutal and savage as it takes, as we saw in Snowbowl. However, he still has that Stark Guilt in him, so, try as hard as he may, if death does come for him again, he doesn't want to undo it.
After leaving the Nights Watch, he becomes King in the North, and goes from a sense of obligation to the NW, to genuinely wanting to help people as KiTN.
As for Cersei, I think a lot of this season was her struggling with her identity, and now she's gonna respond to all the injustice done to her. In the premier, she says that her children are the only things that make her feel like she's maybe not a monster. Her love for her children, however twisted and manipulative it may be, it still the only thing that keeps her grounded, the only thing that makes her think she is capable of good. At the end of the season, we essentially have her saying "fuck it, I am a monster." And after the betrayal from her son and the fucking carnage she caused, she takes the Throne. She can't even revel in it, as S4 Cersei would have done, because she lost literally everything for it.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Jul 9, 2016 20:06:46 GMT
Theon also had a big transformation from 5.10-6.10. He now has a place in the world as an ironborn, a Greyjoy, with a relative who bears no grudge against his foster family, which was really all he wanted all along before fucking everything up for himself back in s2.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2016 20:49:29 GMT
Theon, Cersei, and Jon.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Jul 9, 2016 22:13:20 GMT
Theon, because it is so great to see him freed from Ramsay, to see him return home as a better person, to support his sister and eventually pledge himself to Dany with the agreement to lead the Ironborn into a new way of life. Plus, great acting from Alfie Allen helped sell it.
Asha, for being a woman with brains who uses them for good, looks out for her little brother, looks great in high heeled boots, etc. Etc. Despite the underwhelming Euron and dull Kingsmoot, I think Theon and Asha were the most consistently enjoyable character arcs this season.
Also liked Brans arc, sort of. What I mean is, I was entertained by it, and there were some cool reveals. But in terms of the larger narrative, it feels a bit off, because he has travelled all that way to find Bloodraven, lost Jojen, almost died a few times, Meera was almost raped, and what for? I think the problem here is residual from him being cut from season five, we should have seen more of his training to justify his long trek to the North
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Jul 10, 2016 19:32:43 GMT
Also liked Brans arc, sort of. What I mean is, I was entertained by it, and there were some cool reveals. But in terms of the larger narrative, it feels a bit off, because he has travelled all that way to find Bloodraven, lost Jojen, almost died a few times, Meera was almost raped, and what for? I think the problem here is residual from him being cut from season five, we should have seen more of his training to justify his long trek to the North Did Bran even have an arc? Most of his screentime was flashbacks which weren't really about him, and then suddenly he's the 3ER and wtf does that even mean? |
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Jul 10, 2016 22:46:03 GMT
Also liked Brans arc, sort of. What I mean is, I was entertained by it, and there were some cool reveals. But in terms of the larger narrative, it feels a bit off, because he has travelled all that way to find Bloodraven, lost Jojen, almost died a few times, Meera was almost raped, and what for? I think the problem here is residual from him being cut from season five, we should have seen more of his training to justify his long trek to the North Did Bran even have an arc? Most of his screentime was flashbacks which weren't really about him, and then suddenly he's the 3ER and wtf does that even mean? That's a good point too. I found his scenes entertaining and all but in addition to the problems I mentioned, there is also, as you say, no real arc for the character |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2016 13:29:58 GMT
Great read, thanks mad queen!
Uhh its really hard to say who had the best arc. All of them had the potential to be the best ever, but the more you guys discuss them the more I realise there were either a few things wrong with them or not enough time to do them complete justice.
I'll start by saying my 2 most disappointing arcs:
-Jaime
-Arya
I say disappointing for arya because I thought the first half or three quarters of her arc was very good. The end left me dissatisfied and with more questions about braavos and the FM than before. It did seem a bit easy as well, for arya to be beaten so roughly physically and mentally in her training to then stop being no one because of lady crane. I guess I just wasn't sold on it.
Jaime has been disappointing since season 4. I wanted him to change at riverrun. But the change only came when Cersei seriously altered the cityscape of kings landing.
The best arcs would have to be:
-Sansa
-Dany
-Tyrion
-Jon
-Theon
It was a little subtle but I think Tyrion did go through a great arc this season. He was humbled by his experiences in Mereen. He learnt to trust new people who were actually good people. I think he found new purpose as Danys advisor. And someone he is truly happy to serve as Hand.
The rest of them have been talked about.
I did think it was interesting that Cersei was thinking about blowing up the sept before Tommen outlawed trial by combat. I wonder when she decided this plan of hers would go ahead? I think it was in ep 2 as she embraced Tommen and realised he was not going to allow her to fullfil her agenda. Then Qyburn provided the confirmation in ep8 about the wildfire caches. Ironically i think after Cersei's walk of shame she became the most unshameful of who she truly is.
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Post by Jaehaerys Targaryen on Aug 10, 2016 17:55:30 GMT
So after all that Dorne actually makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Ellaria and the snakes are Team Dany.
And now the Iron Islands is the new Dorne. Boy did they drop the ball with Euron after that badass introduction.
And Sansa was just abysmal this season. Withheld crucial information and she didn't make much sense all season.
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Post by Admin on Aug 10, 2016 18:13:35 GMT
So after all that Dorne actually makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Ellaria and the snakes are Team Dany. And now the Iron Islands is the new Dorne. Boy did they drop the ball with Euron after that badass introduction. And Sansa was just abysmal this season. Withheld crucial information and she didn't make much sense all season. Welcome to the board!  |
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Post by day dreamer on Aug 11, 2016 12:46:37 GMT
So after all that Dorne actually makes sense in the grand scheme of things. Ellaria and the snakes are Team Dany. And now the Iron Islands is the new Dorne. Boy did they drop the ball with Euron after that badass introduction.And Sansa was just abysmal this season. Withheld crucial information and she didn't make much sense all season. This. I hated Euron in the books. I thought the Greyjoy uncle chapters were so boring, but when they showed him in 602, I was like "okay, maybe I'll like him." Then he said he'd show Dany his big cock and disappeared. He could still be badass next season and do something great, but it was so lackluster this season. |
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Post by Belle on Aug 11, 2016 13:21:36 GMT
it still kills me that yara and theon were able to steal all the ships and make it decently off-shore by the time euron was going through the drowning ceremony lol
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