Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 16:29:21 GMT
"I did what I had to do to survive. I will always be a Stark." Because LF would've killed her had she not agreed to marry Ramsay, right? She was in no position to refuse, though. Women in this world are always at the mercy of men and do what they're told, unless there is the rare moment when they are in a position to rule in their own right, which Sansa is not. Even someone as willful as Cersei would have ended up marrying Loras in the end, had her father not been killed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 16:31:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 16:31:45 GMT
Damn, the Sansa hate is strong it's like Season 1 all over again. And it's gross af.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 16:52:26 GMT
Because LF would've killed her had she not agreed to marry Ramsay, right? She was in no position to refuse, though. Women in this world are always at the mercy of men and do what they're told, unless there is the rare moment when they are in a position to rule in their own right, which Sansa is not. Even someone as willful as Cersei would have ended up marrying Loras in the end, had her father not been killed. Why wasn't she? Had she said no, LF would've probably agreed. LF could've waited for Stannis to defeat the Boltons, and then march against him under Tommen's banners. Or if Stannis were to lose, he could've marched against the Boltons to revenge the Red Wedding.
|
|
|
Post by King Tommen on May 30, 2016 16:52:51 GMT
Yeah, Sansa's a real traitor. Remember when she said "Marry Ramsay, that sounds awesome!" and gave LF a high five? I mean, I haven't watched the scene for a while so it may have played out completely differently than that but if I want to hate Sansa for no good reason, then I'm pretty sure I'd have to interpret the scene that way.
|
|
Steve Stark
Grumpkin
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
Posts: 262
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 16:55:18 GMT
Post by Steve Stark on May 30, 2016 16:55:18 GMT
This is a GREAT teaser. Lots happening, and a lot of people we've been waiting to see.
#TeamBlackfish
|
|
Steve Stark
Grumpkin
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
Posts: 262
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 16:57:33 GMT
Post by Steve Stark on May 30, 2016 16:57:33 GMT
Oh a Sansa debate! I missed it.
Traitor or no (I vote no, she's simply a young girl), she is a hottie! Sophie has grown up to be a full blown knockout!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 17:09:21 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:09:21 GMT
She was in no position to refuse, though. Women in this world are always at the mercy of men and do what they're told, unless there is the rare moment when they are in a position to rule in their own right, which Sansa is not. Even someone as willful as Cersei would have ended up marrying Loras in the end, had her father not been killed. Why wasn't she? Had she said no, LF would've probably agreed. LF could've waited for Stannis to defeat the Boltons, and then march against him under Tommen's banners. Or if Stannis were to lose, he could've marched against the Boltons to revenge the Red Wedding. It's cute that you think LF would have taken no for an answer. Oh a Sansa debate! I missed it. Traitor or no (I vote no, she's simply a young girl), she is a hottie! Sophie has grown up to be a full blown knockout! Also, can we not reduce her to just a pretty face?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:11:12 GMT
I don't hate Sansa nor do I think she's a traitor. I like her actually. She is certainly not one of my favourites though. While I like her, I don't defend her decision to agree to marry Ramsay. She could have said no. Granted she didn't know what kind of monster Rams truly was, but she still agreed to marry son of a man who killed his brother. She was supposed to "destroy the Boltons from inside", but did she even try? No. She only talked shit to them, and only started doing something after Rams had already started raping and abusing her.
I understand that LF "manipulated her" by telling her that she'd only have to marry Rams so she could revenge her mother and brother. She agreed. But she didn't even try to do that before it was too late.
|
|
|
Post by MarcusAntonius on May 30, 2016 17:11:41 GMT
She was in no position to refuse, though. Women in this world are always at the mercy of men and do what they're told, unless there is the rare moment when they are in a position to rule in their own right, which Sansa is not. Even someone as willful as Cersei would have ended up marrying Loras in the end, had her father not been killed. Why wasn't she? Had she said no, LF would've probably agreed. LF could've waited for Stannis to defeat the Boltons, and then march against him under Tommen's banners. Or if Stannis were to lose, he could've marched against the Boltons to revenge the Red Wedding. No matter how you slice it LFs plan makes very little sense and the show is still suffering from how stupid that whole storyline was imo
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:14:53 GMT
Why wasn't she? Had she said no, LF would've probably agreed. LF could've waited for Stannis to defeat the Boltons, and then march against him under Tommen's banners. Or if Stannis were to lose, he could've marched against the Boltons to revenge the Red Wedding. It's cute that you think LF would have taken no for an answer. Why not? I just explained why he could've. His plan in the show is 1. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case Stannis loses, destroy them and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her 2. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case they lose, destroy Stannis and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her This would've worked even if Sansa didn't agree. His ultimate goal was to make Sansa Wardeness of the North as his puppet.
|
|
|
Post by King Tommen on May 30, 2016 17:18:24 GMT
I don't hate Sansa nor do I think she's a traitor. I like her actually. She is certainly not one of my favourites though. While I like her, I don't defend her decision to agree to marry Ramsay. She could have said no. Granted she didn't know what kind of monster Rams truly was, but she still agreed to marry son of a man who killed his brother. She was supposed to "destroy the Boltons from inside", but did she even try? No. She only talked shit to them, and only started doing something after Rams had already started raping and abusing her. I understand that LF "manipulated her" by telling her that she'd only have to marry Rams so she could revenge her mother and brother. She agreed. But she didn't even try to do that before it was too late. I think the idea was that she was waiting for LF to tell her how to actually complete this task which never happened and on top of it, he just abandons her at Winterfell after he gets called to KL which wasn't supposed to be the plan either. The plan is for her to produce a Stark heir and wield power that way so in her mind, the marriage and eventual pregnancy were something she needed to do as a sacrifice in order to get to that point. You can't really do anything too drastic until that happens so she had to play her part until then. And when she found out Ramsay was psycho, it was too late. The way LF explained things to her, I think that this was supposed to be a longterm con where she was going to play nice until the right time. That time never arrived so the plan fell apart.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 17:22:45 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:22:45 GMT
It's cute that you think LF would have taken no for an answer. Why not? I just explained why he could've. His plan in the show is 1. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case Stannis loses, destroy them and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her 2. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case they lose, destroy Stannis and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her This would've worked even if Sansa didn't agree. His ultimate goal was to make Sansa Wardeness of the North as his puppet. Because LF is a seedy, creepy, manipulative little shit who wouldn't have just rolled over and said "ok then" at Moat Cailin if she had refused.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 17:29:57 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:29:57 GMT
It's cute that you think LF would have taken no for an answer. Why not? I just explained why he could've. His plan in the show is 1. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case Stannis loses, destroy them and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her 2. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case they lose, destroy Stannis and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her This would've worked even if Sansa didn't agree. His ultimate goal was to make Sansa Wardeness of the North as his puppet. The only way LF could destroy the Boltons was if Cersei agreed to an attack on them. The only way Cersei would agree is if she thought the Boltons were traitors. LF achieved that by telling her about Sansa being with the Boltons. That's why LF would have never taken no for an answer from Sansa. Sansa marrying Ramsay was essential to Littlefinger's plan. I'm not sure why people don't see this. It makes perfect sense IMO.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:41:48 GMT
Why not? I just explained why he could've. His plan in the show is 1. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case Stannis loses, destroy them and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her 2. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case they lose, destroy Stannis and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her This would've worked even if Sansa didn't agree. His ultimate goal was to make Sansa Wardeness of the North as his puppet. Because LF is a seedy, creepy, manipulative little shit who wouldn't have just rolled over and said "ok then" at Moat Cailin if she had refused. You didn't even answer me. Why not? I just explained why he could've. His plan in the show is 1. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case Stannis loses, destroy them and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her 2. Give Sansa to the Boltons, and in case they lose, destroy Stannis and place Sansa as Wardeness of the North and rule through her This would've worked even if Sansa didn't agree. His ultimate goal was to make Sansa Wardeness of the North as his puppet. The only way LF could destroy the Boltons was if Cersei agreed to an attack on them. The only way Cersei would agree is if she thought the Boltons were traitors. LF achieved that by telling her about Sansa being with the Boltons. That's why LF would have never taken no for an answer from Sansa. Sansa marrying Ramsay was essential to Littlefinger's plan. I'm not sure why people don't understand this. It makes perfect sense. Telling Cersei was only his plan after Sansa had agreed. He could've claimed Roose was planning on crowning himself, he could've said that Tyrion is with the Boltons. Cersei is so stupid she could've easily believed. But anyway, even if Sansa marrying Rams is essential to LF's plan (which I don't think it is), Sansa doesn't know it. At that point Sansa had no reason to distrust Littlefinger. She had no reason to think that LF wouldn't have accepted no as an answer.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 17:59:10 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 17:59:10 GMT
Because LF is a seedy, creepy, manipulative little shit who wouldn't have just rolled over and said "ok then" at Moat Cailin if she had refused. You didn't even answer me. The only way LF could destroy the Boltons was if Cersei agreed to an attack on them. The only way Cersei would agree is if she thought the Boltons were traitors. LF achieved that by telling her about Sansa being with the Boltons. That's why LF would have never taken no for an answer from Sansa. Sansa marrying Ramsay was essential to Littlefinger's plan. I'm not sure why people don't understand this. It makes perfect sense. Telling Cersei was only his plan after Sansa had agreed. He could've claimed Roose was planning on crowning himself, he could've said that Tyrion is with the Boltons. Cersei is so stupid she could've easily believed. But anyway, even if Sansa marrying Rams is essential to LF's plan (which I don't think it is), Sansa doesn't know it. At that point Sansa had no reason to distrust Littlefinger. She had no reason to think that LF wouldn't have accepted no as an answer. I'm not sure how that contradicts anything I said, though. We can agree on the fact that LF wanted Cersei to think Roose had betrayed the crown, right? LF could have invented some bullshit reason, sure, but LF has always lied by telling a slightly different version of the truth. So he chose to put Sansa in WF. You can disagree with Littlefinger, I do too. But D&D did not commit any logical fallacies on a plotting level as some fans think. As to Sansa letting herself being manipulated... LF is the most manipulative character in this entire show. Why is it so hard to believe that LF would be able to make Sansa do whatever he wants her to do? Anyway, this is S5 discussion and in the end it doesn't really matter if you agree or disagree with LS's plan making sense. We can all agree to disagree here. However, my point in regards to S6 is that Sansa is not a traitor. Quite the contrary, she did it, because she wanted to find a way to avenge her family. She was used and manipulated by LF and she was physically and mentally abused by Ramsay. Calling her a traitor on top of all of this would just be distasteful. But I appreciate you and everyone saying that that's not what y'all were arguing.
|
|
|
Post by freypies on May 30, 2016 18:14:56 GMT
We'll all probably be waiting for the season finale at this point next season
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 18:22:41 GMT
Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 18:22:41 GMT
We'll all probably be waiting for the season finale at this point next season Fuck.
|
|
Steve Stark
Grumpkin
Trying to edit my book and get it published by December. Got my cover art done a few months ago! :)
Posts: 262
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 18:29:43 GMT
Post by Steve Stark on May 30, 2016 18:29:43 GMT
Why wasn't she? Had she said no, LF would've probably agreed. LF could've waited for Stannis to defeat the Boltons, and then march against him under Tommen's banners. Or if Stannis were to lose, he could've marched against the Boltons to revenge the Red Wedding. It's cute that you think LF would have taken no for an answer. Oh a Sansa debate! I missed it. Traitor or no (I vote no, she's simply a young girl), she is a hottie! Sophie has grown up to be a full blown knockout! Also, can we not reduce her to just a pretty face?
She is not JUST a pretty face. But she is absolutely beautiful. I won't change my stance on that.
But she is very young (in the books she's even more so), so it always drives me crazy when people get upset with Sansa or Daenerys in the books for making poor decisions, when in fact they are extremely young and shouldn't have to make those decisions. I won't even get into Arya, who has had to KILL people at her age, and she's the youngest of them all.
From the moment that the girls watched their father get his head lopped off, their lives were rough. And although Sansa is much older in the show than she was in the books, the show is still based off of the books, which is where the decisions were derived from.
But don't give me your sexist guilt trip. I'll have none of it. I've been married for over a decade and know how to treat a beautiful lady. So if you mistook my statement that she's a "knockout" for something else, then I don't know what to say. But she is very possibly (in my opinion) one of the most beautiful women on the show, although they are all beautiful in their own way. In real life she's kind of a goofball, but still beautiful.
And Sansa (character-wise) is probably going to end up being a big deal in the bofok/show. She's done putting up with BS, she's grown up exponentially with the situations she's had to live through, and she's got her family name (multiple bloodlines, mind you) that will probably help her take the entire North, especially now that she'll have the Blackfish backing her. I could easily see her being a power player in the future, or even Queen Regent of the North until her brother comes of age...Rickon better survive, by the way. I'm hoping her and Jon do a rescue mission. Guess we'll find out by episode 9 or so.
|
|
|
Promo
May 30, 2016 20:11:17 GMT
Post by Admin on May 30, 2016 20:11:17 GMT
Don't do it Sati, walk away.
|
|
|
Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on May 30, 2016 20:18:02 GMT
this is such a fun discussion. i'm so glad we get to revive it at every goddamn opportunity. such a valuable experience for all of us.
|
|