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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 10, 2016 1:10:58 GMT
This episode strongly suggests Bran has shaped events in the past, however minimally. I definitely think Ned heard Bran's whisper 20 years ago, without knowing what it was. Funny thing is, the Three-Eyed Raven looks tremendously pained when he sees Bran running to his father. Almost as if what is going on affects him on a personal level. One would think a millenary being would be impersonal and distant by now, but nope. In the Winterfell vision from "Home", he has a clear picture of Bran's infancy: "You were happy once". And in a season 4 episode, Jojen bluntly tells Bran "The raven is you". Now we know that the Three-Eyed Raven from the show has nothing to do with the Bloodraven from the books. He is a mysterious figure of unknown origin. Why would a powerful creature sit there waiting a thousand years for Bran Stark of all people, unless he was conditioned by fate to do so (ie, because he is Bran Stark)? We also know Bran is wildly, perhaps unimaginably, powerful. So is it out of the realm of possibility that before the series is over Bran goes to the distant past and stays lost there? Perhaps as some kind of sacrifice? And if the distant past is something like 1000 years ago, he could have gone to the cave, settled there, grown ancient, become Max von Sydow, until beginning the chain of events that call young Bran to the cave. Young Bran's quest to meet the ancient Bran would not be a time paradox but a necessity of fate, which fits the fantasy world perfectly and doesn't go into science fiction territory (rest assured, there will be no alternate realities. The ink is dry, and the Raven already knows how the story ends). If you listen to the conversation they have in this episode, something strange is definitely going on. The Three-Eyed Raven laughs cryptically at Bran's suggestion that he doesn't want to be like him. The Raven tells him that he won't be there all his life, which is true: the child of the forest prophecies that Bran will leave the cave.... but maybe only to go back to it in the past. Sorry for the length. Bran's storyline gets the imagination going  Do you think this is completely mad? Partially mad? |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 10:56:25 GMT
Partially mad Nah i think it would be an interesting twist. But it would have to be a show-only invention which i think makes it unlikely. But who knows? I think "The ink is dry" is a very important quote. But it may just mean that 'you can't change the past' because its somehow 'set' in this Universe. Theon also hears Bran in the books, so does Ned by the wierwood tree in Winterfell. So that's nothing new, but i don't think he had the ability yet to really hone his skills and have an actual affect on the past, just like at TOJ in ep 3. But it is kind of weird the show changed who the 3ER was ? or maybe they just changed his age? BR shouldn't be that much older than maester Aemon, definitely not 1000 years old. I thought about this today too, because i think his story is very interesting. I posted in the episode discussion thread whether it was possible that Bran had an influence on the events of the first Long Night, that helped the First Men defeat the NK 8,000 years ago. |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 11:24:59 GMT
I think the biggest problem most of us have with time travel is the "what if I accidentally met myself in the past or future?" paradox. How can you coexist in the same universe with the other you that didn't time travel? Of course, the argument that time travel itself is even possible means you're willing to bend the rules of physics a bit, right?  I don't see how Bran could be the same person as the Three Eyed Raven. I've been calling him Bloodraven so long now it seems ingrained but we don't even have true proof yet that's him either so really he could be anyone. The 1000 years thing does seem odd but this wouldn't be the first time the show has exaggerated ages and time passing for dramatic effect. You have a point though about some of the similarities and comparisons. I guess I assumed he knows so much about Bran because of course he's been watching him his whole life waiting for the time he could bring him to him north of the wall. He knew how Bran's life would play out and apparently knows how his future plays out as well. Seems like it's his job to just make sure Bran doesn't screw up any bits and creates a time wrinkle or some other kind of anomaly that breaks the universe haha. I have a feeling Bran's going to end up doing something for sure that he shouldn't have done and that this puts in motion a series of events that shouldn't have happened. It may be as simple as Hodor's Hodor event or something as massive as why the White Walkers are attacking. All this slooooow buildup with him for this long has to mean something big otherwise what's the point, right? |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 11:30:36 GMT
Yeh i agree^
I think 3ER knows what the future holds as well, and so he has seen what Bran would do and his importance so has been following him all his life, and by extension those around him (Ned, Cat and siblings).
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 10, 2016 19:29:21 GMT
I think the biggest problem most of us have with time travel is the "what if I accidentally met myself in the past or future?" paradox. How can you coexist in the same universe with the other you that didn't time travel? Of course, the argument that time travel itself is even possible means you're willing to bend the rules of physics a bit, right? I don't see how Bran could be the same person as the Three Eyed Raven. I've been calling him Bloodraven so long now it seems ingrained but we don't even have true proof yet that's him either so really he could be anyone. The 1000 years thing does seem odd but this wouldn't be the first time the show has exaggerated ages and time passing for dramatic effect. You have a point though about some of the similarities and comparisons. I guess I assumed he knows so much about Bran because of course he's been watching him his whole life waiting for the time he could bring him to him north of the wall. He knew how Bran's life would play out and apparently knows how his future plays out as well. Seems like it's his job to just make sure Bran doesn't screw up any bits and creates a time wrinkle or some other kind of anomaly that breaks the universe haha. I have a feeling Bran's going to end up doing something for sure that he shouldn't have done and that this puts in motion a series of events that shouldn't have happened. It may be as simple as Hodor's Hodor event or something as massive as why the White Walkers are attacking. All this slooooow buildup with him for this long has to mean something big otherwise what's the point, right? Agreed, he probably shaped events in a big way and we're about to find out how exactly. I freely acknowledge my theory is bonkers , but it's good to specify that it wouldn't really be time travel. I think Bran's third chapter in ADWD explains this the best. The weirwoods exist outside of time - there is no past, present or future inside them. When the Raven says "the ink is dry", he means it. You can't change fate, no matter if you believe in free will, predetermination or both. So if Bran goes and "changes" the past in a future episode, it will be nothing new and it will create no time paradoxes, because those changes have already been in effect forever. So the ink is indeed dry. Bran can't create alternate past or futures because he's not in them, he's just outside of time as a tree god would. Which leads me to think that the Raven knows not only how the story begins, but also how it ends.... |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 10, 2016 19:30:47 GMT
I think "The ink is dry" is a very important quote. But it may just mean that 'you can't change the past' because its somehow 'set' in this Universe. This is how I interpret it - You can interact with the "past", but you can't truly change it because that interaction was always going to happen. That's why "the ink is dry". I really hope those Long Night theories come true  |
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2016 19:42:35 GMT
I think "The ink is dry" is a very important quote. But it may just mean that 'you can't change the past' because its somehow 'set' in this Universe. This is how I interpret it - You can interact with the "past", but you can't truly change it because that interaction was always going to happen. That's why "the ink is dry". I really hope those Long Night theories come true wHICH THEORIES DO YOU MEAN? |
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Post by lordcarson on May 11, 2016 5:21:47 GMT
I don't know if Bran sets in motion like the events of the entire story in a vision, but I think interacting with these visions is what will end up getting the cave destroyed. I've stopped reading the speculation threads so don't tell me if this has already been confirmed or not, but I think Bran could stay too long in whatever his vision involving the Night's King is and that's how they can locate him. If he can touch Bran, then he can totally figure out his surroundings.
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 11, 2016 5:47:04 GMT
I don't know if Bran sets in motion like the events of the entire story in a vision, but I think interacting with these visions is what will end up getting the cave destroyed. I've stopped reading the speculation threads so don't tell me if this has already been confirmed or not, but I think Bran could stay too long in whatever his vision involving the Night's King is and that's how they can locate him. If he can touch Bran, then he can totally figure out his surroundings. Nothing has been confirmed either way but I totally believe that is happening. |
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2016 11:43:01 GMT
I don't know if Bran sets in motion like the events of the entire story in a vision, but I think interacting with these visions is what will end up getting the cave destroyed. I've stopped reading the speculation threads so don't tell me if this has already been confirmed or not, but I think Bran could stay too long in whatever his vision involving the Night's King is and that's how they can locate him. If he can touch Bran, then he can totally figure out his surroundings. Nothing has been confirmed either way but I totally believe that is happening. Yeah I agree this is a great theory lordcarson and very plausible as to how/why the White Walkers end up finding them at the Great Tree. The Night's King may have ulterior motives for wanting to get to Bran knowing his powers though - maybe not to kill him but convert him? We know he can turn Craster's sons into White Walkers so it's likely not limited to only babies. There are lots of theories that the Night's King wants Jon Snow as his apprentice but what if it's actually Bran he wants? (As archie said, there's no leak confirmation on any of this, so it's just speculation, no spoilers!)  |
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Post by Nezzer on May 12, 2016 0:25:46 GMT
Please, no time travel and time paradoxes  |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 12, 2016 1:24:02 GMT
Nothing has been confirmed either way but I totally believe that is happening. Yeah I agree this is a great theory lordcarson and very plausible as to how/why the White Walkers end up finding them at the Great Tree. The Night's King may have ulterior motives for wanting to get to Bran knowing his powers though - maybe not to kill him but convert him? We know he can turn Craster's sons into White Walkers so it's likely not limited to only babies. There are lots of theories that the Night's King wants Jon Snow as his apprentice but what if it's actually Bran he wants? (As archie said, there's no leak confirmation on any of this, so it's just speculation, no spoilers!) It's also interesting how the Three-Eyed Raven and the Night's King physically touch Bran in a similar way, but perhaps with opposite intentions. The Three-Eyed Raven always wants to take him out of the visions. I think the Night's King will be doing the opposite thing, he will pull Bran further into the vision. Bran may struggle to escape it. I'm getting Freddy Krueger vibes. |
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Post by archiechvyalthan on May 12, 2016 1:27:15 GMT
Please, no time travel and time paradoxes There is no time travel and time paradoxes that I can see. I'd hate those too in a story of this kind The way time works with the weirwoods is set up pretty nicely in Bran's 3rd ADWD chapter. |
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Post by Singer of Death on May 12, 2016 20:14:10 GMT
Please, no time travel and time paradoxes Lol. Someone suggest a crackpot that Bran is every Bran in the Stark family history. Bran is Brandon the Builder, Bran the Bran son of Brandon Builder, Bran is also Brandon the Burner, Brandon the Shipwright, etc, and possibly the Night's King is Bran as well since they look similar. Thus taking incest to a whole new level  |
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Do you think this is completely mad? Partially mad?
