Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 16:43:48 GMT
I especially don't want them eventually allying with Daenerys. 100% DO NOT WANT. That will be the worst. If we absolutely have to see Dorne again, I'd rather it be in the form of Varys showing up, saying Doran had a plan, and Ellaria and the sham snakes are all dumb bitches. You and me both. That's really how I expected it to go and so this plot twist was a disappointing shocker for sure. I really thought Varys would stay with Tyrion just until Daenerys came back and then he'd vanish back to Westeros again to pave the way for her return by visiting Dorne. I guess that could still happen but wtf ... Ellaria can go swallow a spear too before I want to see her pandering to Daenerys.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 16:48:33 GMT
I think I'm done discussing this shit. I'm certain the Sand Shits won't appear at KL, but instead travel back to Dorne. I would be shocked if Dorne has more than two appearances after this.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 16:54:29 GMT
I think I'm done discussing this shit. I'm certain the Sand Shits won't appear at KL, but instead travel back to Dorne. I would be shocked if Dorne has more than two appearances after this. Yeah I've pretty much washed my hands of it and glad it was done in episode 1 after all. At first I was annoyed they'd wasted precious time in the premiere on it but now I just want it to go away and never come back!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 17:00:36 GMT
I think I'm done discussing this shit. I'm certain the Sand Shits won't appear at KL, but instead travel back to Dorne. I would be shocked if Dorne has more than two appearances after this. Yeah I've pretty much washed my hands of it and glad it was done in episode 1 after all. At first I was annoyed they'd wasted precious time in the premiere on it but now I just want it to go away and never come back!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 17:16:38 GMT
Even Melisandre agrees!
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on Apr 27, 2016 17:20:49 GMT
I went back and watched Doran's scenes from S5 and he threatens to kill Ellaria twice..We couldn't he just do that?!?!?!
Also Keisha Castle Hughes' grumpy cat face is too much. How does an Oscar nominated actress, who is literally good in everything else she does manage that?
|
|
|
Post by Admin on Apr 28, 2016 17:19:27 GMT
|
|
|
Post by day dreamer on Apr 28, 2016 18:10:23 GMT
Siddig immediately after reading the 601 script.
|
|
|
Post by DaveyJoe on May 5, 2016 10:49:35 GMT
I went back and watched Doran's scenes from S5 and he threatens to kill Ellaria twice..We couldn't he just do that?!?!?! Also Keisha Castle Hughes' grumpy cat face is too much. How does an Oscar nominated actress, who is literally good in everything else she does manage that? There's a clear disconnect from the end of Dorne season 5 and the season premier. I've never seen such an obvious "oh shit, time to backpedal!" from such an otherwise quality show. It seems like the really took all of the negative reaction to Dorne to heart, and decided to use the word processor equivalent of a hydraulic press on their Dorne story. They tried to streamline Dorne, and that's understandable, unfortunately, they dumbed it down too much so that it felt out of place with the rest of the show. They took an intriguing inheritance dispute plot and reduced it to a revenge story, I'm assuming they wanted to repeat the popularity of Oberyn's story, but it just didn't work. And in their haste, they eliminated the characters that might have actually been able to salvage it. Alex Siddig as Doran was the one shining spot of Dorne. But they killed him off in a hasty sequence that highlighted some plot holes and continuity errors. So it's just a big mess.
|
|
mau
Grumpkin
Haters Gonna Hate
Posts: 346
|
Post by mau on May 5, 2016 11:40:25 GMT
I still think their love for Indira Varma destroyed this plot.
|
|
|
Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 5, 2016 11:44:50 GMT
I went back and watched Doran's scenes from S5 and he threatens to kill Ellaria twice..We couldn't he just do that?!?!?! Also Keisha Castle Hughes' grumpy cat face is too much. How does an Oscar nominated actress, who is literally good in everything else she does manage that? There's a clear disconnect from the end of Dorne season 5 and the season premier. I've never seen such an obvious "oh shit, time to backpedal!" from such an otherwise quality show. It seems like the really took all of the negative reaction to Dorne to heart, and decided to use the word processor equivalent of a hydraulic press on their Dorne story. They tried to streamline Dorne, and that's understandable, unfortunately, they dumbed it down too much so that it felt out of place with the rest of the show. They took an intriguing inheritance dispute plot and reduced it to a revenge story, I'm assuming they wanted to repeat the popularity of Oberyn's story, but it just didn't work. And in their haste, they eliminated the characters that might have actually been able to salvage it. Alex Siddig as Doran was the one shining spot of Dorne. But they killed him off in a hasty sequence that highlighted some plot holes and continuity errors. So it's just a big mess. They thought Oberyns daughters would be a bigger deal, that's why. They tried to play too much off one character to build their entire story. That's why I'm glad they focused so little on Euron in the build up to this series. Some times they just really over hype something, and that was exactly what they did with Dorne.
|
|
|
Post by Mecha-StannisForever on May 5, 2016 11:47:24 GMT
I still think their love for Indira Varma destroyed this plot. They gutted the entire story. Varma was also one of the few bright spots of Dorne in her interactions with Siddig. Though I will agree that focusing on her story and getting revenge on Myrcella made no sense. I mean, they could steal her necklace, but not just sneak into her room and kill her?
|
|
mau
Grumpkin
Haters Gonna Hate
Posts: 346
|
Post by mau on May 5, 2016 15:31:53 GMT
I still think their love for Indira Varma destroyed this plot. They gutted the entire story. Varma was also one of the few bright spots of Dorne in her interactions with Siddig. Though I will agree that focusing on her story and getting revenge on Myrcella made no sense. I mean, they could steal her necklace, but not just sneak into her room and kill her? I think that Indira was good in her scenes, but they made her part of starring cast for no reason at all. They are just forcing this minor character to become so important because they like the actress. I think it made perfect sense for Ellaria to take that "face of revenge" role in the show, but it doesn't make sense for her to be the one who will make an alliance with Dany. And when I say it makes no sense, I don't think in the story, because I find no problem with the logic of Doran's death at all. My problem is why D&D want Ellaria to be the face of Dorne instead of Doran? What is their reason outside of the story? And only logical explanation is that they like Indira Varma so much that they are willing to change that storyline so drastically. Someone said that it was an obvious "oh shit, time to backpedal!" moment. But they didn't decide to kill Ellaria and SS. Maybe it was "oh shit, time to backpedal!" moment , and maybe not. In S5 Indira Varma was part of the starring cast and not Alexander Siddig. So from the beginning they made her character more important than Doran. They chose to kill Doran instead of Ellaria because they like Indira Varma and they are changing the storyline to make her character more important becase there is no reason for her to take Doran's role, because Doran is in the show as well. It is completely different with Yara and Victarion or Jorah and Jon C. That's my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by DaveyJoe on May 5, 2016 19:30:24 GMT
I don't think focusing on Ellaria was the mistake of the Dornish story. They basically just made Ellaria take on Arianne's role in the story. And in the context of the show, that makes sense. Ellaria was clearly deeply in love with Oberyn, and it makes sense that she would be thirsty for revenge. The problem, is that they didn't really want to devote enough time to Dorne in season 5 to have a storyline that had any depth.
What was interesting about Dorne in the books was how different Doran was from Oberyn, he seemed like a more calculating character. He felt like somebody that could be a new Tywin, moving pieces on a chessboard and forging alliances. The show's fault wasn't focusing on Ellaria, it was that they tried to replicate the success of Oberyn in the Sand Snakes. There is no way that three underdeveloped characters could inspire the same type of excitement that Pedro Pascal did with his performance. A Chilean accent and a leather outfit draping characters that want revenge, does not a great character make. Oberyn was compelling because, sure, he was badass, but it was the humanity inside that really made you love him. He was passionate, and loved his sister, and you could sense the torment inside. The Sand Snakes have no humanity. They are cardboard cutouts with one emotion: anger.
That's just not good drama. Nobody can relate to the Sand Snakes because they don't seem like real people. Oberyn did. Jamie and Bronn were much more interesting than the Dornish characters that were supposed to be advancing their own story. The writers didn't have faith in the Dornish storyline, so they wanted to dip their toes in the water instead of jumping into the pool, and it backfired. I'm the one who said 6x01 was a backpedal, because it's clear that they changed their plan after 5x10 from the continuity errors between the new episodes. Every single season finale sets up the story for the next year, but it's pretty obvious that they changed their plan after negative reaction to season 5 Dorne. Every casual tv viewer I know is totally perplexed by the Dornish story after 6x01, and how it was possible after the scene in 5x10.
It all comes down to the execution by the writers. The storyline simply needed more time devoted, so they could add some depth to it. They reduced to it a cliched revenge story featuring shallow characters. Arianne was the main character of Dorne in the books, so it's fine that Ellaria plays that role in the show. The mistake is the dumbing down of the story, and underplaying the conflict between Ellaria and Doran for a few poorly executed action scenes and rushed plot developments instead.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 23:43:29 GMT
I think it was a mistake to focus on Ellaria, only because of what they reduced her to. If they stuck to her original character trait (passive) then it would have been much more interesting. A conflict between wanting revenge on the lannisters but knowing that revenge gets you no where. She could have tried to crown myrcella instead of trying to kill her. And her story could have been trying to keep the sand snakes in line, tyene and her could have replaced the doran-arianne relationship. Tyene could have defied her resulting in the injury or death of Myrcella. As Myrcella and Trystane leave, Doran gives away his plans all along and a way to rescue trystane and take down the last of the Lannisters in KL.
|
|
mau
Grumpkin
Haters Gonna Hate
Posts: 346
|
Post by mau on May 6, 2016 0:10:54 GMT
I don't think focusing on Ellaria was the mistake of the Dornish story. ........ You are missing my point. You are discussing things that happened in S5 and I'm talking about Dorne in S6. If what happened in E1 was a backpedal that doesn't mean that Doran needed to be the one who gets killed. They could have decided to go a different route and kill Ellaria and SS and have Doran made an alliance with Dany. But if Ellaria makes that alliance in the show, the only reason why they chose to do that is because they love Indira Varma. I can't see absolutely no other reason to give Doran's plot to Ellaria. And that's why I said that their love for Indira Varma destroyed Dornish plot. I wasn't talking about S5, because after S5 there was so much potential for Dorne in S6. But they chose Ellaria instead of Doran.
|
|
mau
Grumpkin
Haters Gonna Hate
Posts: 346
|
Post by mau on May 6, 2016 0:15:02 GMT
They should have cut SS. There is absolutely no way to make those characters good. Because a team of girl warriors is so cheesy trope. You can't do anything with that.
It is just something that doesn't belong to this story. In the books or the show.
In the world where you have Cersei, Yara, Sansa, Brienne,... SS are something that just doesn't belong here. The whole idea is wrong. It can't be fixed.
|
|
|
Post by DaveyJoe on May 6, 2016 0:21:58 GMT
I don't think focusing on Ellaria was the mistake of the Dornish story. ........ You are missing my point. You are discussing things that happened in S5 and I'm talking about Dorne in S6. If what happened in E1 was a backpedal that doesn't mean that Doran needed to be the one who gets killed. They could have decided to go a different route and kill Ellaria and SS and have Doran made an alliance with Dany. But if Ellaria makes that alliance in the show, the only reason why they chose to do that is because they love Indira Varma. I can't see absolutely no other reason to give Doran's plot to Ellaria. And that's why I said that their love for Indira Varma destroyed Dornish plot. I wasn't talking about S5, because after S5 there was so much potential for Dorne in S6. But they chose Ellaria instead of Doran. Possibly. But if Doran executes Ellaria, it wouldn't have felt like a backpedal, because that's what season 5 alluded to. I think we all expected, and would have preferred, that Doran stay in the mix throughout season 6. I feel like the sudden dismissal of Doran, Areo, and Trystane isn't because they loved Indira Varma, but because of the negative backlash to Dorne in season 5. They decided to scale back on it, and mistakenly thought that the badass revenge warriors were the only part of the story worth salvaging. The whole thing is a mess, though, so it's hard to understand the writers' motivations. It's all just speculation since we don't know what happens to Doran in book 6, but in the show... at least at this point, 6x01 isn't about any type of alliance with Dany, it's about Dorne going ahead with their war against the Lannisters.
|
|
mau
Grumpkin
Haters Gonna Hate
Posts: 346
|
Post by mau on May 6, 2016 0:44:20 GMT
But negative backlash had nothing to do with Doran. So if they really reacted to that they would have killed SS. Not him. I'm trying to undrstand why they chose Ellaria instead of Doran and their love for Indira Varma is the only reason I can think of.
|
|
|
Post by Nezzer on May 6, 2016 1:58:16 GMT
But negative backlash had nothing to do with Doran. So if they really reacted to that they would have killed SS. Not him. I'm trying to undrstand why they chose Ellaria instead of Doran and their love for Indira Varma is the only reason I can think of. I agree, I love Alex Siddig and he could've made a great Doran if only they had let him, Areo was also great and Trystane was meh, but not actually bad (even though he still looked like a member of a boy band), so there was room for improvement. Indira as Ellaria was great in S4, but her character's been very poorly developed since then and she looks really bad by association with the Sand Snakes.
|
|