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Post by Admin on Apr 27, 2016 18:45:35 GMT
There are minor inconsistencies (the dogs seeming to disappear), which may or may not be inconsistencies. Maybe next scene we'll see the dog handler report the whole thing. Maybe we won't. It's not really a big deal. There are things that stretch believability, but are necessary for the plot to move along (finding Dany's ring). And then there is using one character over and over to shore up story lines, as has been done with Brienne. They've done it too many times now. One of the things that's unique about Game of Thrones is it usually doesn't do that "the hero saves the day at the last moment" thing or any of the other feel-good tropes we expect from lesser stories. It makes sense to me that Brienne found Sansa while looking for her, but also stumbling upon Stannis AND showing up just in the nick of time. They're getting a little cliche with this if you ask me. I hope they get back to form as far as plotting goes. Brienne 1. randomly meets Arya & Sandor in 4x10 while travelling around the Vale 2. randomly passes Sansa & LF in 5x01 3. randomly happens to find Stannis on a battlefield in 5x10 Don't read the following, as you're an Unsullied (in a way) I wouldn't be surprised if she randomly met Sandor & Meribald too while on the road. I think her first meetings with Arya and Sansa could have been avoided alltogether
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Post by breakfest on Apr 27, 2016 19:16:46 GMT
There are minor inconsistencies (the dogs seeming to disappear), which may or may not be inconsistencies. Maybe next scene we'll see the dog handler report the whole thing. Maybe we won't. It's not really a big deal. There are things that stretch believability, but are necessary for the plot to move along (finding Dany's ring). And then there is using one character over and over to shore up story lines, as has been done with Brienne. They've done it too many times now. One of the things that's unique about Game of Thrones is it usually doesn't do that "the hero saves the day at the last moment" thing or any of the other feel-good tropes we expect from lesser stories. It makes sense to me that Brienne found Sansa while looking for her, but also stumbling upon Stannis AND showing up just in the nick of time. They're getting a little cliche with this if you ask me. I hope they get back to form as far as plotting goes. I agree with the hero saving the day at the last minute thing, they've done that a lot recently. That's unfortunately the case in just about everything ever though, not that it excuses it, it just seems to be the easiest way to build tension and provide payoff for most filmmakers. The chance meetings and coincidences have always been part of the show, though. And the books. Catelyn running into Tyrion in Season 1, in Season 3 Arya finding the Brotherhood, then the Brotherhood finding the Hound. There just wouldn't be much of a show without these. Maybe they've got more frequent but I think that might have to be the case in getting to the endgame soon.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 19:31:36 GMT
There are minor inconsistencies (the dogs seeming to disappear), which may or may not be inconsistencies. Maybe next scene we'll see the dog handler report the whole thing. Maybe we won't. It's not really a big deal. There are things that stretch believability, but are necessary for the plot to move along (finding Dany's ring). And then there is using one character over and over to shore up story lines, as has been done with Brienne. They've done it too many times now. One of the things that's unique about Game of Thrones is it usually doesn't do that "the hero saves the day at the last moment" thing or any of the other feel-good tropes we expect from lesser stories. It makes sense to me that Brienne found Sansa while looking for her, but also stumbling upon Stannis AND showing up just in the nick of time. They're getting a little cliche with this if you ask me. I hope they get back to form as far as plotting goes. I agree with the hero saving the day at the last minute thing, they've done that a lot recently. That's unfortunately the case in just about everything ever though, not that it excuses it, it just seems to be the easiest way to build tension and provide payoff for most filmmakers. The chance meetings and coincidences have always been part of the show, though. And the books. Catelyn running into Tyrion in Season 1, in Season 3 Arya finding the Brotherhood, then the Brotherhood finding the Hound. There just wouldn't be much of a show without these. Maybe they've got more frequent but I think that might have to be the case in getting to the endgame soon. Yes, and dramatic tension does work a little differently in the visual realm. I'll give them that, but Game of Thrones shouldn't be easy. You bring up something that I've wondered about a lot, and in fact, I wonder if this is part of GRRM's writing procrastination. Will he be able to tie things up and keep avoiding cliches as he nears the end? I assume that the good guys will win. We don't know how many of them will be alive, but most of us aren't expecting the WW or Boltons to be in charge in the end, so we are looking for a happy ending. How bitter will the bittersweet ending be? What are fresh ways to end an epic that are also satisfying?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2016 19:40:06 GMT
I agree with the hero saving the day at the last minute thing, they've done that a lot recently. That's unfortunately the case in just about everything ever though, not that it excuses it, it just seems to be the easiest way to build tension and provide payoff for most filmmakers. The chance meetings and coincidences have always been part of the show, though. And the books. Catelyn running into Tyrion in Season 1, in Season 3 Arya finding the Brotherhood, then the Brotherhood finding the Hound. There just wouldn't be much of a show without these. Maybe they've got more frequent but I think that might have to be the case in getting to the endgame soon. Yes, and dramatic tension does work a little differently in the visual realm. I'll give them that, but Game of Thrones shouldn't be easy. You bring up something that I've wondered about a lot, and in fact, I wonder if this is part of GRRM's writing procrastination. Will he be able to tie things up and keep avoiding cliches as he nears the end? I assume that the good guys will win. We don't know how many of them will be alive, but most of us aren't expecting the WW or Boltons to be in charge in the end, so we are looking for a happy ending. How bitter will the bittersweet ending be? What are fresh ways to end an epic that are also satisfying?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 1:22:59 GMT
That's the nature of fiction, though. Every movie, show and book I know requires suspension of disbelief. It's just how it is. That's why I think this type of criticism is a little bit redundant. I pointed out the example of Aragorn finding Pippin's brooch in the LotR movies. Stuff like that happens all the time. I'm not sure why people like to criticise GoT as if it's something only this show does. Also, let's not mix probability and logic. Jorah finding that field is not impossible and illogical, it's just a little bit improbable. But improbable things happen all the time and fiction often aims at depicting things that DON'T happen. Fiction, while mirroring real life, shows us what COULD be, not what is. So if Brienne turns up the exact second Bolton soldiers are about to arrest Sansa, it's not a matter of logic, but of dramatic effect. Even universally praised shows like Breaking Bad do this (just think of the finale).[ In fact, every show I know does this. Also, what exactly would be the alternative? Let's take LF's infamous jetpack. Yes, they are absolutely stretching believability here, but do you want to see travelogues? I don't and this is not how TV works anyway. If they had gone down that route, I guarantee you, there would not be a TV show to discuss today. George can (barely) get away with endless travelogues, because of the much slower nature of novels. That being said, there are some logical fallacies on the show, I'm not denying that. But they don't occur as often as the more critical viewers think they do. Damn you, breakfest, you ninja'd me again. Breaking Bad required a ton of suspension of disbelief. It's one of the reasons I don't rank it nearly as high as some other shows that I think the writing was a little more realistic. The Sopranos & The Wire for example.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 1:26:00 GMT
Brienne 1. randomly meets Arya & Sandor in 4x10 while travelling around the Vale 2. randomly passes Sansa & LF in 5x01 3. randomly happens to find Stannis on a battlefield in 5x10 Don't read the following, as you're an Unsullied (in a way) I wouldn't be surprised if she randomly met Sandor & Meribald too while on the road. I think her first meetings with Arya and Sansa could have been avoided alltogether Which I would have been fine with. Still have mixed feelings about my boy Sandor getting his ass kicked.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 2:48:18 GMT
I think her first meetings with Arya and Sansa could have been avoided alltogether Which I would have been fine with. Still have mixed feelings about my boy Sandor getting his ass kicked. I have mixed feelings too. I really loved that fight. It didn't bother me that Brienne beat him because she's awesome, and he was injured and slow. But the chance encounter was really kind of...WTF. There's a lot of territory there, and they weren't even on the road. It's also a major departure from the source that someone knows Arya is alive. I'm not sure how that will play out but am interested to see. I'm obviously wiling to let it go and enjoy the show, but I think it's definitely a weakness.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 2:50:10 GMT
I also really like both characters. I didn't want them to fight.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 2:57:30 GMT
I also really like both characters. I didn't want them to fight. I was so nervous because I didn't want either of them hurt, and it was very brutal. But I'm a sucker for a good fight, and it was a nasty-good fight.
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Post by Admin on Apr 28, 2016 4:28:22 GMT
It's not even about Brienne and Sandor kicking each other in the parts that are only meant to be treated nicely but Brienne running into Stark girls not once, not twice, but three fucking times is a bit of an overkill
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Post by Mecha-StannisForever on Apr 28, 2016 4:33:58 GMT
It's not even about Brienne and Sandor kicking each other in the parts that are only meant to be treated nicely but Brienne running into Stark girls not once, not twice, but three fucking times is a bit of an overkill Brienne ex machina has returned!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 4:39:06 GMT
The meeting in 410 didn't bother me because I got the impression that that road/mountain pass was the only way towards the Eyrie from the west where both would converge going in the directions that they were going in. The time in 502 was too convenient but, again, it's better than a wild goose chase imho. But chance encounters like that happen in the books all the time too. It's kind of a necessary way to tie things together so storylines don't get too isolated.
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Post by 7timesdamnedshewolf on Apr 28, 2016 4:41:40 GMT
I wonder if Myranda's dad is still alive and in charge of the hounds, might be a bit awkward feeding them their latest meal.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 4:42:24 GMT
I wonder if Myranda's dad is still alive and in charge of the hounds, might be a bit awkward feeding them their latest meal. They should've made her Locke's daughter just to tie it all together.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 4:47:14 GMT
It's not even about Brienne and Sandor kicking each other in the parts that are only meant to be treated nicely but Brienne running into Stark girls not once, not twice, but three fucking times is a bit of an overkill Third time's a charm, I guess.
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Post by Admin on Apr 28, 2016 5:36:09 GMT
I wonder if Myranda's dad is still alive and in charge of the hounds, might be a bit awkward feeding them their latest meal. They should've made her Locke's daughter just to tie it all together. Locke's daughter would never be this lame
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 7:33:59 GMT
It's not even about Brienne and Sandor kicking each other in the parts that are only meant to be treated nicely but Brienne running into Stark girls not once, not twice, but three fucking times is a bit of an overkill I don't see the point of being so bothered by it. There are very few roads in these parts. There are local side trails, sure, but if you are going North-South you use the Kingsroad. If you are going to the Vale you use the Eastern Road, and if you are at the intersection then you are pretty much guaranteed to find yourself at the Crossroads Inn. This was pretty explicit in the books and entirely explains Brienne's first two encounters at least as far as location goes. Only the timing is lucky coincidence. Brienne finding Stannis was the biggest stretch IMO. Her finding out the candle was lit and that the hounds were out hunting is really not so big a deal.
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Post by Admin on Apr 28, 2016 7:51:45 GMT
It's not even about Brienne and Sandor kicking each other in the parts that are only meant to be treated nicely but Brienne running into Stark girls not once, not twice, but three fucking times is a bit of an overkill I don't see the point of being so bothered by it. There are very few roads in these parts. There are local side trails, sure, but if you are going North-South you use the Kingsroad. If you are going to the Vale you use the Eastern Road, and if you are at the intersection then you are pretty much guaranteed to find yourself at the Crossroads Inn. This was pretty explicit in the books and entirely explains Brienne's first two encounters at least as far as location goes. Only the timing is lucky coincidence. Brienne finding Stannis was the biggest stretch IMO. Her finding out the candle was lit and that the hounds were out hunting is really not so big a deal. I'm not bothered by it. It's not even in top 10 of the dumbest moments. But having Brienne run into Cat's daughters so many times felt weird to me. The second of those, scene where Sansa refuses her at the inn was just the worst, especially that apparently according to writers Sansa was 'saving' Brienne from LF which 1. makes no sense 2. doesn't come off the things that happens in that scene, specifically Turner's acting at all
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 8:50:30 GMT
I caught the look of assessing the situation and realizing Brienne was in trouble. I get that a lot of people didn't but to me it was clear. Sansa refused Brienne at the Inn because LF was making clear he did not want her there, and Sansa knew very well that meant he would kill her. She had very recently watched him kill quite a few people who were inconvenient to him.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 12:31:50 GMT
For me it's not any one of those coincidences but the preponderance of them, and the fact that they're all happening to Brienne, who was conveniently taken out of her book arc and set off on this plot-fixing arc. I didn't mind when she ran into Hot Pie and then the Hound and Arya. I thought it stretched believability when they crossed paths with Sansa's carriage and then ran into them, but I went with it. It definitely stretched believability when she then found Stannis, but I kind of was okay with the way it went down at first...it bothered me more over time as I began to think about how convenient that was. And now, boom, she's zeroed in on Sansa and Theon.
I'll admit, I thought LSH fans were just belly-aching about book changes at first. Then I thought the same of Stannis fans. But since it keeps happening, I have come around to seeing that they really have been lazy in their use of Brienne. And I wish they would stop, because she is TEH AWESOME.
Edit: It should be noted that I have no problem with people "bellyaching" about their favorite characters' stories getting altered (or cut) in ways they don't like. You're "allowed", and I'll never argue with you about that. So, please don't think I dismiss your thoughts on that, LSH and Stannis fans. My personal point of view is that I'm fine with any book change that makes a great story. Even if they cut someone beloved to me. I get that not everyone can or will feel that way.
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