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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2015 9:03:57 GMT
This almost looks like real footage from the show. It must be from the future. LSH confirmed, guys! Is she hanging a horse? Lady Stoneheart casually hanging some centaurs.
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Post by kingeomer on Jul 3, 2015 20:00:13 GMT
I think our chances are virtually non-existent, but I still want to hype it just for fun. I will never be as disappointed as I was after 4x10. Even after 5x10, I was more prepared and not very surprised. So I might as well just jump on the hype-train for fun. But from a storytelling point of view, I do believe that LSH is still possible. I agree that it wouldn't be very elegant, but in a show full of unelegant creative choices, her inclusion in S6 wouldn't be the most unbelievable thing. I 100% agree with the bolded. If the show does decide to bring her (and I do think the chances are extremely slim) on, the explanation might be clumsy but if the showrunners want it to happen, it will, no matter how goofy the explanation is. Considering that we have not seen or really heard from the Riverlands since early season 4 when Arya and the Hound were going towards to the Vale...they could use the excuse no one knows what's going on there. And if the Freys asked the Iron Throne for help to stop the person or people from hanging them, it could be explained that Cersei just threw their letters away.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 2:23:59 GMT
The fact that they are going to backtrack to the Riverlands at all after all this time already feels weird, to me at least. They jumped waaay ahead in some parts and now are backpedaling on others. And people gave GRRM a hard time for the two separated books. Seems like they've struggled to adapt it in a cohesive way for some bits.
Nothing constructive to say about LSH other than if they did bring her back now, it would be no weirder than half the other missing plots from that time-period and parts of the map that were just plain dropped for the entirety of season 5. Let's not even start about how weird it's going to be for the Greyjoys. ugh.
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Post by freeparking on Jul 4, 2015 3:32:07 GMT
If they go back to the Riverlands in Season 6, and if they re-introduce the Freys and the Brotherhood, I honestly think there might still be a faint glimmer of hope for our beloved UnCat. Let us all pray to almighty R'hllor, that he shall finally return her to us. I was thinking, Show-Brienne has now officially broken her oath to Catelyn. She left her post to pursue Stannis and because of that, she failed to rescue Sansa, thus giving Stoneheart a genuine reason to be pissed at her, which will hopefully come into play in Season 6, when Brienne is captured by the Brotherhood. Brienne made Cat promise that if the day should ever come that she got a shot to kill Stannis, Cat wouldn't hold her back.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 3:55:58 GMT
The fact that they are going to backtrack to the Riverlands at all after all this time already feels weird, to me at least. They jumped waaay ahead in some parts and now are backpedaling on others. And people gave GRRM a hard time for the two separated books. Seems like they've struggled to adapt it in a cohesive way for some bits. Nothing constructive to say about LSH other than if they did bring her back now, it would be no weirder than half the other missing plots from that time-period and parts of the map that were just plain dropped for the entirety of season 5. If they jump into the TWOW Riverlands material, I don't really think it'll be backpedalling. They can do that quickly really by removing the Bri wandering and the Jaime visiting different army encampments stuff and jumping right into the late AFFC and TWOW BWB stuff. That'll do the trick. It's better to only go the locations when they can afford to feature screentime in them and have storylines coming together in them. Remember also that with Arya's blindness, we also have another window into the Riverlands now.
The LSH question is a harder one. She's only showed up twice in the books, in two very good scenes of course, but still only twice. I think it was a mistake of GrrM to build her up so big in the ASOS epilogue but then to feature her so seldom since. That kindof attention IMO deserves some front-and-center followup, instead of just one appearance towards the end of AFFC. So it could be that she was just delayed in the show until she could be featured prominently screentime-wise, instead of dropping such a curveball to the audience and then barely following up on it. If an LSH appearance were to be very well-handled it might not even feel too off to have her appear so long after Cat's death. It could be done, I think, though it'd have to be explained pretty carefully.
That said, there are plenty of ways to write around her that could still work with the Riverlands/BWB stuff. It would be less powerful for sure though. Really I don't know what this'll be. I'd still lean towards her being cut, but we'll see...I'll keep my eyes peeled for pertinent info during the shoot (but we ought to keep in mind also that people come up with A TON of fake LSH info too).
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Post by Admin on Jul 4, 2015 15:38:07 GMT
If they go back to the Riverlands in Season 6, and if they re-introduce the Freys and the Brotherhood, I honestly think there might still be a faint glimmer of hope for our beloved UnCat. Let us all pray to almighty R'hllor, that he shall finally return her to us. I was thinking, Show-Brienne has now officially broken her oath to Catelyn. She left her post to pursue Stannis and because of that, she failed to rescue Sansa, thus giving Stoneheart a genuine reason to be pissed at her, which will hopefully come into play in Season 6, when Brienne is captured by the Brotherhood. Brienne made Cat promise that if the day should ever come that she got a shot to kill Stannis, Cat wouldn't hold her back. Yeah I'm sure Stoneheart will forgive Brienne for letting Sansa get raped repeatedly and then failing to rescue her because she had to kill Stannis
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Post by freeparking on Jul 4, 2015 17:09:08 GMT
Brienne made Cat promise that if the day should ever come that she got a shot to kill Stannis, Cat wouldn't hold her back. Yeah I'm sure Stoneheart will forgive Brienne for letting Sansa get raped repeatedly and then failing to rescue her because she had to kill Stannis First off, the person I responded to said that Brienne officially broke her oath to Cat. She didn't because Brienne made Cat promise her that she wouldn't hold her back if she got a shot at Stannis. It wasn't like Brienne was giving up her post to protect Sansa, since she wasn't actually protecting Sansa by staring at the castle. Considering the amount of time that went by, it is surprising that Brienne didn't just leave before. Secondly, Brienne didn't let Sansa get raped. Brienne tried to help her back at the inn, but Sansa refused. That is like saying Brienne let Arya get on that boat to Braavos. LSH might see it whichever way she wants, but Brienne was not at fault for Sansa's predicament at Winterfell.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 17:13:17 GMT
The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that Brienne is somehow responsible for all of the bad things that happened to good characters since her introduction.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 17:13:23 GMT
Yeah I'm sure Stoneheart will forgive Brienne for letting Sansa get raped repeatedly and then failing to rescue her because she had to kill Stannis First off, the person I responded to said that Brienne officially broke her oath to Cat. She didn't because Brienne made Cat promise her that she wouldn't hold her back if she got a shot at Stannis. It wasn't like Brienne was giving up her post to protect Sansa, since she wasn't actually protecting Sansa by staring at the castle. Considering the amount of time that went by, it is surprising that Brienne didn't just leave before. Secondly, Brienne didn't let Sansa get raped. Brienne tried to help her back at the inn, but Sansa refused. That is like saying Brienne let Arya get on that boat to Braavos. LSH might see it whichever way she wants, but Brienne was not at fault for Sansa's predicament at Winterfell.Well, Brienne found Arya and Sansa, but let them both escape. This is even worse than what happened in the books. Book!LSH would go berserk over this shit.
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Post by Admin on Jul 4, 2015 17:43:23 GMT
Yeah I'm sure Stoneheart will forgive Brienne for letting Sansa get raped repeatedly and then failing to rescue her because she had to kill Stannis First off, the person I responded to said that Brienne officially broke her oath to Cat. She didn't because Brienne made Cat promise her that she wouldn't hold her back if she got a shot at Stannis. It wasn't like Brienne was giving up her post to protect Sansa, since she wasn't actually protecting Sansa by staring at the castle. Considering the amount of time that went by, it is surprising that Brienne didn't just leave before. Secondly, Brienne didn't let Sansa get raped. Brienne tried to help her back at the inn, but Sansa refused. That is like saying Brienne let Arya get on that boat to Braavos. LSH might see it whichever way she wants, but Brienne was not at fault for Sansa's predicament at Winterfell. First off, Brienne absolutely broke the oath to Cat. She swore to keep the girls safe. She stood there doing nothing while Sansa was getting raped and then abandoned her post. Secondly, she absolutely did both those things by letting the girls out of her sight
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Post by Basil on Jul 4, 2015 18:03:30 GMT
Even though technically Brienne has done nothing wrong and we, the viewers, know that, I really don't think Stoneheart would care. Whatever the circumstances might have been, at the end of the day, Brienne did find both Sansa and Arya, but she failed to protect them, which I think would be enough for Lady Stoneheart to proclaim her guilty.
In the books, Brienne is found guilty because of King Tommen's letter, the sword "Oathkeeper" and Brienne's own and, in Catelyn's eyes, weird affection for Jaime Lannister ("Jaime Lannister sends his regards." was one of the last things Catelyn heard before she was killed). If they introduce Stoneheart next season, they could add the fact, tha Brienne "abandoned" Sansa to kill Stannis, to the list of her "crimes" against Catelyn.
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Post by Admin on Jul 4, 2015 18:48:17 GMT
Even though technically Brienne has done nothing wrong and we, the viewers, know that, I really don't think Stoneheart would care. Whatever the circumstances might have been, at the end of the day, Brienne did find both Sansa and Arya, but she failed to protect them, which I think would be enough for Lady Stoneheart to proclaim her guilty. In the books, Brienne is found guilty because of King Tommen's letter, the sword "Oathkeeper" and Brienne's own and, in Catelyn's eyes, weird affection for Jaime Lannister ("Jaime Lannister sends his regards." was one of the last things Catelyn heard before she was killed). If they introduce Stoneheart next season, they could add the fact, tha Brienne "abandoned" Sansa to kill Stannis, to the list of her "crimes" against Catelyn. Honestly if I were Stoneheart and heard that Brienne not only did let Arya and Sansa go but also stood there in front of Winterfell as Sansa was getting abused I'd hang her instantly
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Post by Basil on Jul 4, 2015 19:02:51 GMT
Honestly if I were Stoneheart and heard that Brienne not only did let Arya and Sansa go but also stood there in front of Winterfell as Sansa was getting abused I'd hang her instantly Well, yeah, that's probably exactly what Stoneheart would do, simply because she doesn't know the exact circumstances of Brienne's "failure". All she knows is that Brienne found Sansa and Arya, but didn't manage to rescue them, which is more than enough for somebody as bitter and vengeful as Stoneheart to declare Brienne guilty.
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Post by freeparking on Jul 4, 2015 21:55:39 GMT
First off, the person I responded to said that Brienne officially broke her oath to Cat. She didn't because Brienne made Cat promise her that she wouldn't hold her back if she got a shot at Stannis. It wasn't like Brienne was giving up her post to protect Sansa, since she wasn't actually protecting Sansa by staring at the castle. Considering the amount of time that went by, it is surprising that Brienne didn't just leave before. Secondly, Brienne didn't let Sansa get raped. Brienne tried to help her back at the inn, but Sansa refused. That is like saying Brienne let Arya get on that boat to Braavos. LSH might see it whichever way she wants, but Brienne was not at fault for Sansa's predicament at Winterfell.Well, Brienne found Arya and Sansa, but let them both escape. This is even worse than what happened in the books. Book!LSH would go berserk over this shit. Both Arya and Sansa refused her help, and then Brienne had to contend with their current "protectors." She didn't let them go, because they were at no point with her in the first place. She hasn't broken her oath; she is still trying to fulfill it. Except this time she is letting Sansa say "I want your help" before she bothers to try anything, since clearly the girls need to decide to come with her willingly. And it is important to note that LSH doesn't intend to hang Brienne because she failed to have her daughters. She wants to hang Brienne because she has a Lannister sword, a note from Tommen, a Lannister squire, and was shouting Jaime while she was having a fever dream. Also because her story about Jaime sending her out to protect the girls sounds absurd to LSH.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 22:00:30 GMT
I have to agree on this, I think people are being overly harsh on Brienne. She's no better or worse than she was in the books and LSH wanting to hang her was a misunderstanding of intent since it was Jaime who sent her out there and of course LSH only remembers the Jaime she captured and let go that caused a lot of the mess. Let's not forget Catelyn herself was a major contributor to much of the confusion that fueled the war. Brienne has unfortunately been a pawn as much as many others in this game.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 22:03:37 GMT
I have to agree on this, I think people are being overly harsh on Brienne. She's no better or worse than she was in the books and LSH wanting to hang her was a misunderstanding of intent since it was Jaime who sent her out there and of course LSH only remembers the Jaime she captured and let go that caused a lot of the mess. Let's not forget Catelyn herself was a major contributor to much of the confusion that fueled the war. Brienne has unfortunately been a pawn as much as many others in this game. Also I think by the time Brienne's in the Riverlands in the show, she actually will have helped get Sansa to safety (the Last Hearth).
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Post by Admin on Jul 4, 2015 22:08:27 GMT
Well, Brienne found Arya and Sansa, but let them both escape. This is even worse than what happened in the books. Book!LSH would go berserk over this shit. Both Arya and Sansa refused her help, and then Brienne had to contend with their current "protectors." She didn't let them go, because they were at no point with her in the first place. She hasn't broken her oath; she is still trying to fulfill it. Except this time she is letting Sansa say "I want your help" before she bothers to try anything, since clearly the girls need to decide to come with her willingly. And it is important to note that LSH doesn't intend to hang Brienne because she failed to have her daughters. She wants to hang Brienne because she has a Lannister sword, a note from Tommen, a Lannister squire, and was shouting Jaime while she was having a fever dream. Also because her story about Jaime sending her out to protect the girls sounds absurd to LSH. I have to agree on this, I think people are being overly harsh on Brienne. She's no better or worse than she was in the books and LSH wanting to hang her was a misunderstanding of intent since it was Jaime who sent her out there and of course LSH only remembers the Jaime she captured and let go that caused a lot of the mess. Let's not forget Catelyn herself was a major contributor to much of the confusion that fueled the war. Brienne has unfortunately been a pawn as much as many others in this game. I really don't know how you guys don't see it - instead of staying and waiting for the sign she chooses her own SELFISHNESS and goes after Stannis. She is an Oathbreaker and Kingslayer. Not to mention a moron, with that whole candle plan.
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Post by freeparking on Jul 4, 2015 22:12:14 GMT
First off, the person I responded to said that Brienne officially broke her oath to Cat. She didn't because Brienne made Cat promise her that she wouldn't hold her back if she got a shot at Stannis. It wasn't like Brienne was giving up her post to protect Sansa, since she wasn't actually protecting Sansa by staring at the castle. Considering the amount of time that went by, it is surprising that Brienne didn't just leave before. Secondly, Brienne didn't let Sansa get raped. Brienne tried to help her back at the inn, but Sansa refused. That is like saying Brienne let Arya get on that boat to Braavos. LSH might see it whichever way she wants, but Brienne was not at fault for Sansa's predicament at Winterfell. First off, Brienne absolutely broke the oath to Cat. She swore to keep the girls safe. She stood there doing nothing while Sansa was getting raped and then abandoned her post. Secondly, she absolutely did both those things by letting the girls out of her sight She can't keep people safe who are not under her protection. While at Winterfell, Sansa wasn't under Brienne's protection any more than she was while at the Eryie. Brienne has learned that she can't force her protection on the girls. They need to agree to accept her service. The candle was Sansa's way of saying "Yes, I will accept your help now." There was no point in making a move until Brienne saw that Sansa was ready. The last two times she tried just barging didn't work. And Brienne didn't know what Sansa's status was inside the walls. Again, Brienne made Cat promise that she would not hold her back if Stannis came near her. Sansa took too long to light the candle to let Brienne know she was ready for protection, so it was missed. Brienne didn't break her oath there because as far as she knew Sansa still hadn't accepted her service. It is frankly doubtful she could have done anything anyways, but that is a different issue.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2015 22:14:32 GMT
She can't keep people safe who are not under her protection. While at Winterfell, Sansa wasn't under Brienne's protection any more than she was while at the Eryie. Brienne has learned that she can't force her protection on the girls. They need to agree to accept her service. The candle was Sansa's way of saying "Yes, I will accept your help now." There was no point in making a move until Brienne saw that Sansa was ready. The last two times she tried just barging didn't work. And Brienne didn't know what Sansa's status was inside the walls. Again, Brienne made Cat promise that she would not hold her back if Stannis came near her. Sansa took too long to light the candle to let Brienne know she was ready for protection, so it was missed. Brienne didn't break her oath there because as far as she knew Sansa still hadn't accepted her service. It is frankly doubtful she could have done anything anyways, but that is a different issue. And, moreover, the odds are that Brienne will protect Sansa early on in s6 anyways.
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Post by Admin on Jul 4, 2015 22:15:38 GMT
First off, Brienne absolutely broke the oath to Cat. She swore to keep the girls safe. She stood there doing nothing while Sansa was getting raped and then abandoned her post. Secondly, she absolutely did both those things by letting the girls out of her sight She can't keep people safe who are not under her protection. While at Winterfell, Sansa wasn't under Brienne's protection any more than she was while at the Eryie. Brienne has learned that she can't force her protection on the girls. They need to agree to accept her service. The candle was Sansa's way of saying "Yes, I will accept your help now." There was no point in making a move until Brienne saw that Sansa was ready. The last two times she tried just barging didn't work. And Brienne didn't know what Sansa's status was inside the walls. Again, Brienne made Cat promise that she would not hold her back if Stannis came near her. Sansa took too long to light the candle to let Brienne know she was ready for protection, so it was missed. Brienne didn't break her oath there because as far as she knew Sansa still hadn't accepted her service. It is frankly doubtful she could have done anything anyways, but that is a different issue. So you are trying to say Brienne thought Sansa was all right in there with the Boltons?
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