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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 19:10:17 GMT
"The Karstarks are Northmen, they won't forgive the killing of their lord" Karstarks can't just say that "hey nevermind, we'll help the Starks, even though we abandoned them. Umbers can't be alone in helping the Starks, thus we would need the Manderly's. Why would you want to remove the most beautiful arch in ADWD? Davos can't go to Karhold.. I'm going to guess by "you" you meant HBO, right? I think my wording was confusing as I wasn't implying the Karstarks would ally with the Starks/Northmen even though they should. I said I'll bet they are casting the Karstarks because it's already been a prior part of the show/story when Robb beheaded Rickard Karstark (thus easy to pull into the story) and there will likely be confrontation there ... It's not that I want that or agree with it but unless we get indication over the next couple of months they are casting for House Manderly, we may not get them. Some already think it's too late for that story arc. I think they could do it - but without knowing what is coming from WoW and how much has to be crammed into season 6 - it's impossible to know. Lots of bits we said had to be in the show weren't over the seasons and we got over it. I wouldn't be crushed if they leave out the Manderlys. Yes, I meant D&D. Oops, I thought that you meant that the Karstarks were going to be the secret allies. I'm expecting that the Karstarks will follow their book plot quite tightly. Yes, even though Stannis is dead. It doesn't look good for house Manderly, but there is still hope. Remember that they killed a Manderly on screen during the Red Wedding.. Also many of us bitterly remember parts that should have been on the show. "Pardoned them, yes. Forgiven. But not forgotten".
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Post by King Tommen on Jun 21, 2015 19:18:49 GMT
I'm going to guess by "you" you meant HBO, right? I think my wording was confusing as I wasn't implying the Karstarks would ally with the Starks/Northmen even though they should. I said I'll bet they are casting the Karstarks because it's already been a prior part of the show/story when Robb beheaded Rickard Karstark (thus easy to pull into the story) and there will likely be confrontation there ... It's not that I want that or agree with it but unless we get indication over the next couple of months they are casting for House Manderly, we may not get them. Some already think it's too late for that story arc. I think they could do it - but without knowing what is coming from WoW and how much has to be crammed into season 6 - it's impossible to know. Lots of bits we said had to be in the show weren't over the seasons and we got over it. I wouldn't be crushed if they leave out the Manderlys. Yes, I meant D&D. Oops, I thought that you meant that the Karstarks were going to be the secret allies. I'm expecting that the Karstarks will follow their book plot quite tightly. Yes, even though Stannis is dead. It doesn't look good for house Manderly, but there is still hope. Remember that they killed a Manderly on screen during the Red Wedding.. ...and Ramsay talked about flaying Lord Cerwyn. And Lyanna Mormont wrote a note to Stannis. And Bran sent Rodrik to retake Torrhen's Square. And Yara was in Deepwood Motte in S2 and Robb told Greatjon that Galbart Glover would command the vanguard in S1. And the Reed kids talked about Howland and Greywater Watch. Pretty much every Northern house has been referenced directly or indirectly on the show at one point but that doesn't mean they have any significance outside of being namechecked.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 20:05:31 GMT
If D&D just have LF wipe out the Boltons with Stannis failing miserably...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:26:56 GMT
If D&D just have LF wipe out the Boltons with Stannis failing miserably... There's a decent chance that just that happens in TWOW.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:31:37 GMT
If D&D just have LF wipe out the Boltons with Stannis failing miserably... There's a decent chance that just that happens in TWOW. But Stannis won't fail miserably. BTW when do you think we'll get KotV vs Boltons?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:32:41 GMT
If D&D just have LF wipe out the Boltons with Stannis failing miserably... There's a decent chance that just that happens in TWOW. That would be poor writing from both GRRM and D&D.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:40:06 GMT
But Stannis won't fail miserably. BTW when do you think we'll get KotV vs Boltons? Winning for a few days and then losing is still failing. Which is what I think will happen to Stan.
I could see LF showing up around ep. 603 or 604 or something. I think the first time we'll see him in the season is when he arrives up North. I think he and Sansa and co. will arrive up there comparably later on in TWOW though.
That would be poor writing from both GRRM and D&D. Not necessarily. We'll see.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:42:30 GMT
But Stannis won't fail miserably. BTW when do you think we'll get KotV vs Boltons? Winning for a few days and then losing is still failing. Which is what I think will happen to Stan.
I could see LF showing up around ep. 603 or 604 or something. I think the first time we'll see him in the season is when he arrives up North. I think he and Sansa and co. will arrive up there comparably later on in TWOW though.
That would be poor writing from both GRRM and D&D. Not necessarily. We'll see. Not necessarily but it does sound a bit cheap. Please make Sansa kill LF before the KoV kill the Boltons.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:46:03 GMT
But Stannis won't fail miserably. BTW when do you think we'll get KotV vs Boltons? Winning for a few days and then losing is still failing. Which is what I think will happen to Stan.
True, but at least he'll "give the fuckers a fight".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:47:08 GMT
Winning for a few days and then losing is still failing. Which is what I think will happen to Stan.
I could see LF showing up around ep. 603 or 604 or something. I think the first time we'll see him in the season is when he arrives up North. I think he and Sansa and co. will arrive up there comparably later on in TWOW though.
Not necessarily. We'll see. Not necessarily but it does sound a bit cheap. Please make Sansa kill LF before the KoV kill the Boltons. I want Yohn Royce to go full bad ass and kill LF. I dont like how the show made Royce seem like a pawn for Baelish.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:49:40 GMT
Not necessarily but it does sound a bit cheap. Please make Sansa kill LF before the KoV kill the Boltons. I want Yohn Royce to go full bad ass and kill LF. I dont like how the show made Royce seem like a pawn for Baelish. It didn't. Just you wait. I think he'll be instrumental to the LF downfall. He sided with LF because of what Sansa said. Now if Sansa were to say something different...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2015 21:50:19 GMT
Not necessarily but it does sound a bit cheap. Please make Sansa kill LF before the KoV kill the Boltons. I want Yohn Royce to go full bad ass and kill LF. I dont like how the show made Royce seem like a pawn for Baelish. Yohn could turn on LF and I think it would be better if Sansa pulls the knife at LF and says "I did warn you not to trust me" before stabbing him. Yohn would of course allow this and kill LF's personal soldiers.
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Post by King Tommen on Jun 22, 2015 0:28:12 GMT
LF's continued hold on power is dependent on Sansa going along with whatever story he is providing to the group he is playing sides with at that moment. At this time, he would believe Sansa would have no problem doing this but obviously, the horror he left for her in Winterfell and her continued development would lead her down a different path. I assume whenever LF does reunite with Sansa, it will end up going very badly for him.
However, I don't think they'll be reuniting for a little while yet so LF can probably wiggle around with the different groups he's playing against each other for the time being.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 7:47:38 GMT
Can't wait to see how D&D will make Sansa into a victim again.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 7:53:22 GMT
Can't wait to see how D&D will make Sansa the victim again. Having a character be a victim isn't the same as making them into "the victim". And I don't think that's what her s5 arc was about at all, though I'm sure given the reaction to it, it will continue to be wrongly interpreted as such.
Sansa was never going to be LF 2.0 right out the gate after ep. 408. She clearly isn't in her latest TWOW chapter and I don't think that's what the show or GrrM were ever trying to suggest, no matter how heavy-handed her walking-down-the-Eyrie-stairs-in-a-new-outfit scene in 408 might've been. The future will be a mixed bag for Sansa in both the show and the books. Luckily for her though, she'll soon see through LF and act accordingly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 8:16:02 GMT
Can't wait to see how D&D will make Sansa the victim again. Having a character be a victim isn't the same as making them into "the victim". And I don't think that's what her s5 arc was about at all, though I'm sure given the reaction to it, it will continue to be wrongly interpreted as such.
Sansa was never going to be LF 2.0 right out the gate after ep. 408. She clearly isn't in her latest TWOW chapter and I don't think that's what the show or GrrM were ever trying to suggest, no matter how heavy-handed her walking-down-the-Eyrie-stairs-in-a-new-outfit scene in 408 might've been. The future will be a mixed bag for Sansa in both the show and the books. Luckily for her though, she'll soon see through LF and act accordingly.
Sorry, my grammatical error. She went to WF to scheme, charm and eventually avenge her family. She "learnt outmaneuvering from the very best". So it's kinda disappointing that immediately when LF left, Sansa stopped trying to be charming and then we know the rest of the story. Nobody believed that she would evolve into LF 2.0 immediately, I was still expecting something better than her being grumpy at dinner. She needs to take an active role in the Stark restoration this year and actually show her new skills. Who knows if she's going to take Alys Karstark's role and escape again?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 8:22:44 GMT
Sorry, my grammatical error. She went to WF to scheme, charm and eventually avenge her family. She "learnt outmaneuvering from the very best". So it's kinda disappointing that immediately when LF left, Sansa stopped trying to be charming and then we know the rest of the story. Nobody believed that she would evolve into LF 2.0 immediately, I was still expecting something better than her being grumpy at dinner. She needs to take an active role in the Stark restoration this year and actually show her new skills. Who knows if she's going to take Alys Karstark's role and escape again? She was more than just "grumpy at dinner". Yes, she wasn't able to get revenge on the Boltons (though she WILL in s6) but her risking her life and escaping and manipulating Reek was no small feat. They didn't just make her into Jeyne, who in ADWD was barely willing to escape at all. Though she was put in Jeyne's position more or less, she took initiative immediately. She confronted Theon and though it failed the first time, she knew just what to say to get him on her side. And when Stan lost she showed a helluva lot of backbone. I don't think that's her being s1-s3 Sansa all over again, although AFOIAF posters and ASOIAF redditors will continue saying that until the end of time, I'm sure.
It's true that LF's speech about how she ought to handle the situation was a false lead but it was supposed to be.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 8:27:38 GMT
But...I guess that's all somewhat off-topic. I feel the need to rant sometimes though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 8:40:10 GMT
Sorry, my grammatical error. She went to WF to scheme, charm and eventually avenge her family. She "learnt outmaneuvering from the very best". So it's kinda disappointing that immediately when LF left, Sansa stopped trying to be charming and then we know the rest of the story. Nobody believed that she would evolve into LF 2.0 immediately, I was still expecting something better than her being grumpy at dinner. She needs to take an active role in the Stark restoration this year and actually show her new skills. Who knows if she's going to take Alys Karstark's role and escape again? She was more than just "grumpy at dinner". Yes, she wasn't able to get revenge on the Boltons (though she WILL in s6) but her risking her life and escaping and manipulating Reek was no small feat. They didn't just make her into Jeyne, who in ADWD was barely willing to escape at all. Though she was put in Jeyne's position more or less, she took initiative immediately. She confronted Theon and though it failed the first time, she knew just what to say to get him on her side. And when Stan lost she showed a helluva lot of backbone. I don't think that's her being s1-s3 Sansa all over again, although AFOIAF posters and ASOIAF redditors will continue saying that until the end of time, I'm sure.
It's true that LF's speech about how she ought to handle the situation was a false lead but it was supposed to be.
The problem for me is, that she didn't even try to outmaneuver Roose and Ramsay. I would have been fine if she had attempted to manipulate Ramsay and failed. She manipulated Reek.. well, that's a start. She was brave and strong, yes, but a victim nevertheless. They hyped before the season that Sansa will "find her own house", "use her strengths" and "become a player". Didn't really happen. She's certainly not the same Sansa who she was in S1-S3, but I think we have seen her being the victim for long enough. It's time to see her become a player. But...I guess that's all somewhat off-topic. I feel the need to rant sometimes though. Well I think this is ontopic, we are talking about North and Sansa will be a huge part in it again in season 6. The events this season will reflect on Sansa in season six. Let's talk about her future then. How will they deal with her potential pregnancy? Moon tea? She just won't get pregnant? IMO this needs to be addressed. The Umber could give her some Moon tea if she ever arrives at Last Hearth.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 8:48:35 GMT
The problem for me is, that she didn't even try to outmaneuver Roose and Ramsay. I would have been fine if she had attempted to manipulate Ramsay and failed. She manipulated Reek.. well, that's a start. She was brave and strong, yes, but a victim nevertheless. They hyped before the season that Sansa will "find her own house", "use her strengths" and "become a player". Didn't really happen. She's certainly not the same Sansa who she was in S1-S3, but I think we have seen her being the victim for long enough. It's time to see her become a player. Let's talk about her future then. How will they deal with her potential pregnancy? Moon tea? She just won't get pregnant? IMO this needs to be addressed. The Umber could give her some Moon tea if she ever arrives at Last Hearth. In fairness, those are all Sophie quotes. I don't recall D and D or Cogman saying anything about Sansa's s5 arc that was particularly misleading. Sophie also said, mind you, that she'd be a "prisoner" again but that she'd handle it differently, which is a pretty accurate assessment of what went down in WF.
Also LF saying she should play the game and so on should be taken with a grain of salt. He may not have known what position she'd be in in WF, but ep. 506 showed that one of the main reasons he wanted her up there was so he could have a reason to bring the KotV up north with the Crown's approval, not for Sansa's own benefit.
As for the chance of her getting pregnant, maybe Ramsay's salmon don't swim downstream? That'd be karmic anyways. I'm sure that'll be addressed somehow though. If needs be I'm sure the Umber's Maester, whoever he might be, would know how to brew Moon Tea. So there's always that option, you're right.
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