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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 25, 2015 6:25:31 GMT
It was definitely Lancel. I don't understand why the show had to have Littlefinger and Olenna involved, though.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 6:30:03 GMT
It was definitely Lancel. I don't understand why the show had to have Littlefinger and Olenna involved, though. Because I think they are trying to show how Littlefinger and Olenna are in cahoots together in hatching these plots, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time we've heard it straight from the horse's mouth that they worked together to kill Joffrey... so that's a pretty big reveal especially for unsullied or those who never connected all the dots from the books either. Now that the audience realizes just how crafty they've been, the 'gift' of making Lancel their ace-in-the-hole to take Cersei down is pretty good.
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on May 25, 2015 9:04:03 GMT
It was definitely Lancel. I don't understand why the show had to have Littlefinger and Olenna involved, though. Screentime and usage of cast. And yeah, the trailer clip of Margaery appears to be the same scene as the post-Loras jazz.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 12:34:21 GMT
As much as I want Gendry to be back, it doesn't really fit in because of the several reasons y'all pointed out.
EDIT: I don't believe Gendry would affliate himself with the Faith Militant. He joined the Brotherhood to do what he loves, working as a blacksmith.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 12:54:57 GMT
Wait a minute...
Wasn't there jaimereborn at Westeros who claimed to have seen Joe Dempsie before Season 4 started, who told him that he isn't in in Season 4, but returns for S5.
He could've been lying, of course.
This make s me think if in the books LF has a plan with Edric Storm, assuming he knows about Davos sending him there.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 13:02:12 GMT
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serpounce
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Post by serpounce on May 25, 2015 13:43:55 GMT
I think LF's gift is Olyvar. He'll recant or disappear and the case against Loras and Margaery will collapse, leaving the case against Cersei intact. It seems that Cersei was the one the HS was aiming for anyway. That would explain the shot we've seen of Margaery kneeling in front of Tommen. We haven't seen that one yet so it's still to come.
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Post by kingeomer on May 25, 2015 13:53:14 GMT
Wait a minute... Wasn't there jaimereborn at Westeros who claimed to have seen Joe Dempsie before Season 4 started, who told him that he isn't in in Season 4, but returns for S5. He could've been lying, of course. This make s me think if in the books LF has a plan with Edric Storm, assuming he knows about Davos sending him there. There probably were plans at that point to possibly bring Gendry back. But like the BwB and Balon, it was dropped. I don't suspect we will see Gendry again. And Littlefinger's gift to Oleanna was Lancel.
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Post by lordcarson on May 25, 2015 14:03:53 GMT
When I suggested Gendry, I wasn't thinking of him being in with the Faith AT ALL. I just meant that maybe there was another play up Littlefinger's sleeve that could have involved him. But yeah I know its unlikely, I was just hoping for more than stupid Lancel.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 14:26:48 GMT
I think LF's gift is Olyvar. He'll recant or disappear and the case against Loras and Margaery will collapse, leaving the case against Cersei intact. It seems that Cersei was the one the HS was aiming for anyway. That would explain the shot we've seen of Margaery kneeling in front of Tommen. We haven't seen that one yet so it's still to come. This is quite good! If LF's gift was just Lancel, that brings Cersei down but doesn't do diddly squat to help Loras or Margaery. And Olyvar can't just disappear, since everybody heard his 'testimony' already. Ah, but if Olyvar publicly recants his testimony and then disappears... Even better, he could recant and say that Cersei paid him to lie or that she threatened him and forced him to lie. That frees Loras and Margaery at the same time it makes the case against Cersei even stronger. I like it !!
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Post by Paid Debt Lannister on May 25, 2015 14:55:36 GMT
I think LF's gift is Olyvar. He'll recant or disappear and the case against Loras and Margaery will collapse, leaving the case against Cersei intact. It seems that Cersei was the one the HS was aiming for anyway. That would explain the shot we've seen of Margaery kneeling in front of Tommen. We haven't seen that one yet so it's still to come. This is quite good! If LF's gift was just Lancel, that brings Cersei down but doesn't do diddly squat to help Loras or Margaery. And Olyvar can't just disappear, since everybody heard his 'testimony' already. Ah, but if Olyvar publicly recants his testimony and then disappears... Even better, he could recant and say that Cersei paid him to lie or that she threatened him and forced him to lie. That frees Loras and Margaery at the same time it makes the case against Cersei even stronger. I like it !! I'll pray for the Seven and R'hllor and the old gods and the drowned god and the horse god and the sheep god and the god of tits and wine that this is the case!
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Post by Admin on May 25, 2015 18:12:57 GMT
I have no idea who he was talking about. Lancel apparently told the sparrows everything himself so wtf is Batman on about?
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serpounce
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Post by serpounce on May 25, 2015 18:22:44 GMT
I think LF's gift is Olyvar. He'll recant or disappear and the case against Loras and Margaery will collapse, leaving the case against Cersei intact. It seems that Cersei was the one the HS was aiming for anyway. That would explain the shot we've seen of Margaery kneeling in front of Tommen. We haven't seen that one yet so it's still to come. This is quite good! If LF's gift was just Lancel, that brings Cersei down but doesn't do diddly squat to help Loras or Margaery. And Olyvar can't just disappear, since everybody heard his 'testimony' already. Ah, but if Olyvar publicly recants his testimony and then disappears... Even better, he could recant and say that Cersei paid him to lie or that she threatened him and forced him to lie. That frees Loras and Margaery at the same time it makes the case against Cersei even stronger. I like it !! Yes, having Olyvar say that Cersei was behind it meshes exactly with the books when Kettleblack confessed about her involvement in the plot against Margaery. He feared for his life.... poor baby.
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Post by Enid on May 25, 2015 19:07:15 GMT
I think Littlefinger was talking about Lancel and the information he had about Cersei. Olenna and Littlefinger probably convinced him to confess directly to the High Sparrow instead of a regular septon (does the Faith of the seven have secret of confession? I always assumed it did because is similar to catholicism). Olyvar is another possibility, because his testimony is the only thing the Faith has against the Tyrells, if he "goes away" or "changes his tune" Margaery and Loras will probably be ok, but I kinda doubt the High Sparrow would allow such an important witness out of his sight. He seems determined to go after the high-borns.
I love Gendry and I hope he comes back someday, but I doubt he is with Littlefinger, and every year I doubt more and more we will ever see him again.
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Post by janicia on May 25, 2015 19:34:05 GMT
It was definitely Lancel. I don't understand why the show had to have Littlefinger and Olenna involved, though. I think their involvement explains the High Sparrow's course of action. If the High Sparrow had Lancel's confession from the start, you have to wonder why he waited until that moment to arrest Cersei. It makes him seem less sincere if he's intentionally messing with Cersei. But if the High Sparrow had only just talked to Lancel, his arrest of Cersei at that moment makes sense and he comes off as more of an honest true believer. But I don't think the show established that Lancel was keeping that information close to his chest. He blurted it out immediately to Cersei at Tywin's funeral, and then got a star covered on his forehead. It does seem strange that he needed Olenna to persuade him to come forward.
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Post by AdmiralKyrd on May 25, 2015 20:15:53 GMT
I think LF's gift is Olyvar. He'll recant or disappear and the case against Loras and Margaery will collapse, leaving the case against Cersei intact. It seems that Cersei was the one the HS was aiming for anyway. That would explain the shot we've seen of Margaery kneeling in front of Tommen. We haven't seen that one yet so it's still to come. This is quite good! If LF's gift was just Lancel, that brings Cersei down but doesn't do diddly squat to help Loras or Margaery. And Olyvar can't just disappear, since everybody heard his 'testimony' already. Ah, but if Olyvar publicly recants his testimony and then disappears... Even better, he could recant and say that Cersei paid him to lie or that she threatened him and forced him to lie. That frees Loras and Margaery at the same time it makes the case against Cersei even stronger. I like it !! A. Olyvar then will be wanted for lying to the gods. He's likely already on trial himself for "buggery." B. Littlefinger won't want Olyvar to run when tearing down the Tyrells serves his purposes just as much as tearing down Cersei.
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Post by Enid on May 25, 2015 20:26:50 GMT
A. Olyvar then will be wanted for lying to the gods. He's likely already on trial himself for "buggery." B. Littlefinger won't want Olyvar to run when tearing down the Tyrells serves his purposes just as much as tearing down Cersei. Why would serve Littlefinger's purposes to see the Tyrells teared down? that would go against him, as Olenna said, they worked together to kill a king, if the Tyrells go down, Littlefinger does too. Littlefinger may want to see Cersei destroyed because she wants to kill Sansa and because the Faith destroyed his whore-house, but the Tyrells had nothing to do with that.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 20:48:51 GMT
This is quite good! If LF's gift was just Lancel, that brings Cersei down but doesn't do diddly squat to help Loras or Margaery. And Olyvar can't just disappear, since everybody heard his 'testimony' already. Ah, but if Olyvar publicly recants his testimony and then disappears... Even better, he could recant and say that Cersei paid him to lie or that she threatened him and forced him to lie. That frees Loras and Margaery at the same time it makes the case against Cersei even stronger. I like it !! A. Olyvar then will be wanted for lying to the gods. He's likely already on trial himself for "buggery." B. Littlefinger won't want Olyvar to run when tearing down the Tyrells serves his purposes just as much as tearing down Cersei. A. Olyvar would loudly and publicly recant, blame all his lies on Cersei. And the next time the Sparrows go to drag him, he mysteriously can't be found. And he is never heard from or seen again, courtesy of Littlefinger.
B. The Tyrells have the food, they have the gold and LF and Olenna make a formidable team for getting things done behind the scenes. The Tyrells are useful to him.
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Post by King Tommen on May 25, 2015 21:06:24 GMT
Guys, there's no reason to show Lancel's meeting with LF in the "Previously on" clip before the episode unless they wanted you to remember that LF saw Lancel in King's Landing with the Sparrows. And there's no reason for that to be the case unless they want you to link Lancel as the guy LF tells Olenna about.
Obviously Lancel did not confess all his sins right away to the High Sparrow or Cersei would've been arrested long before she was. The idea is that LF tells Olenna that Lancel has the goods, Olenna goes to either Lancel or the HS with this info, Lancel confirms and Cersei gets arrested. They skipped showing the audience the middle steps because they wanted the Cersei and HS scene to be a surprise for the audience.
It's honestly no more complicated than that.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2015 21:17:03 GMT
A. Olyvar then will be wanted for lying to the gods. He's likely already on trial himself for "buggery." B. Littlefinger won't want Olyvar to run when tearing down the Tyrells serves his purposes just as much as tearing down Cersei. A. Olyvar would loudly and publicly recant, blame all his lies on Cersei. And the next time the Sparrows go to drag him, he mysteriously can't be found. And he is never heard from or seen again, courtesy of Littlefinger.
B. The Tyrells have the food, they have the gold and LF and Olenna make a formidable team for getting things done behind the scenes. The Tyrells are useful to him.
Good points and I agree Littlefinger and Olenna would benefit more from working together. Watched the scene again and would emphasize that Littlefinger said: "The same gift I gave Cersei, a handsome young man..." He gave Olyvar to Cersei at the Inquest hearing ... that was the handsome young man who would bring down Margaery which is what Cersei wanted more than anything. He then gave Lancel to Olenna's side - which got Cersei arrested. So there are actually two handsome young men and Littlefinger is playing them against each other. He is playing Tyrell against Lannister. That's his chaos ladder. Brilliant really!
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