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Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2015 14:02:33 GMT
BTW this is still a better art than official poster for this season
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Post by Admin on Jun 14, 2015 14:04:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 14:07:12 GMT
This is awesome! Let D&D and HBO feel the united wrath of LSH fans!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 14:24:49 GMT
Ha, you make it sound like D&D want to give fans what they want, rather than telling us what we should want!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 14:31:39 GMT
I think this really is our last chance, guys If she isn't in tonight, then I don't think we'll ever see her. Come on D&D
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valyrianshadow
Snark
"Seat my daughter on the Iron Throne. Or die in the attempt."
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Post by valyrianshadow on Jun 14, 2015 14:54:02 GMT
*crying* This is all I want. Looks great as your avatar too Sati. Dat stare. I need it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 14:57:04 GMT
Perfect
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Post by Basil on Jun 14, 2015 15:05:40 GMT
Nah, not happening! The silly, stupid zombie of a silly, stupid character, who wasn't even cool and badass, raised by some unrealistic magic spell, yeah right, nobody cares about that shit. Robert Strong on the other hand, who is this awesome, badass Frankenstein's Monster-type of zombie, now that is quality storytelling, right there. Because science and shit. ... I'm sorry for that, but no Stoneheart makes me fucking bitter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 15:06:17 GMT
i just want my Lady
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 15:10:51 GMT
I never understood why it is so difficult to understand that LSH is a complete deconstruction of the "good guy dies and comes back even better"- fantasy trope. She is the exact reverse of Gandalf The White and therefore so brilliant. People praise GRRM all the time for reversing and deconstructing fantasy-tropes, but somehow LSH is always criticised. This is just another instance of what makes GRRM's books so brilliant!
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sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 14, 2015 15:17:05 GMT
I never understood why it is so difficult to understand that LSH is a complete deconstruction of the "good guy dies and comes back even better"- fantasy trope. She is the exact reverse of Gandalf The White and therefore so brilliant. People praise GRRM all the time for reversing and deconstructing fantasy-tropes, but somehow LSH is always criticised. This is just another instance of what makes GRRM's books so brilliant! Dondarrion was the deconstruction of that 'trope'...and very well done, too. He was slowly losing his humanity and everything that made him 'him' was slipping away from him every time he was brought back. But in any case, that's not Stoneheart. She doesn't have any humanity left. To me, Stoneheart felt like a cheap shock just there to make the audience gasp. Maybe she has an important part to play later on in the story, but nothing we've seen so far suggests that she absolutely needed to be brought back. I'm perfectly fine with Catelyn staying dead. I liked her, but there are plenty of living people who can kill Freys already in the story.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 15:19:26 GMT
I never understood why it is so difficult to understand that LSH is a complete deconstruction of the "good guy dies and comes back even better"- fantasy trope. She is the exact reverse of Gandalf The White and therefore so brilliant. People praise GRRM all the time for reversing and deconstructing fantasy-tropes, but somehow LSH is always criticised. This is just another instance of what makes GRRM's books so brilliant! Dondarrion was the deconstruction of that 'trope'...and very well done, too. He was slowly losing his humanity. That's not Stoneheart. She never had humanity. To me, Stoneheart felt like a cheap shock just there to make the audience gasp. Maybe she has an important part to play later on in the story, but nothing we've seen so far suggests that she absolutely needed to be brought back. I'm perfectly fine with Catelyn staying dead. I liked her, but there are plenty of living people who can kill Freys already in the story. See, I think Beric was only the preparation for the actual deconstruction that happens with Catelyn Stark who is, you know, a main character and therefore a hundred times more effective and emotionally charged than Beric.
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Post by freypies on Jun 14, 2015 15:19:28 GMT
I never understood why it is so difficult to understand that LSH is a complete deconstruction of the "good guy dies and comes back even better"- fantasy trope. She is the exact reverse of Gandalf The White and therefore so brilliant. People praise GRRM all the time for reversing and deconstructing fantasy-tropes, but somehow LSH is always criticised. This is just another instance of what makes GRRM's books so brilliant! I acknowledge that she is a deconstruction of that, but the trope reversal alone doesn't make her something that I enjoy. For me, personally, the Lady Stoneheart character was a major misstep, especially because she was one of the starters of the incredibly frustrating "not-really-dead" thing that GRRM had going on in AFFC and ADWD.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 15:20:09 GMT
I never understood why it is so difficult to understand that LSH is a complete deconstruction of the "good guy dies and comes back even better"- fantasy trope. She is the exact reverse of Gandalf The White and therefore so brilliant. People praise GRRM all the time for reversing and deconstructing fantasy-tropes, but somehow LSH is always criticised. This is just another instance of what makes GRRM's books so brilliant! Dondarrion was the deconstruction of that 'trope'...and very well done, too. He was slowly losing his humanity. That's not Stoneheart. She never had humanity. To me, Stoneheart felt like a cheap shock just there to make the audience gasp. Maybe she has an important part to play later on in the story, but nothing we've seen so far suggests that she absolutely needed to be brought back. I'm perfectly fine with Catelyn staying dead. I liked her, but there are plenty of living people who can kill Freys already in the story. So you agree then that she's the perfect deconstruction of the "good guy comes back to life all amazing" trope?
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sj4iy
Grumpkin
"Et tu, Brute?"
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Post by sj4iy on Jun 14, 2015 15:24:41 GMT
Dondarrion was the deconstruction of that 'trope'...and very well done, too. He was slowly losing his humanity. That's not Stoneheart. She never had humanity. To me, Stoneheart felt like a cheap shock just there to make the audience gasp. Maybe she has an important part to play later on in the story, but nothing we've seen so far suggests that she absolutely needed to be brought back. I'm perfectly fine with Catelyn staying dead. I liked her, but there are plenty of living people who can kill Freys already in the story. So you agree then that she's the perfect deconstruction of the "good guy comes back to life all amazing" trope? It's not a trope. Just because it happened in LotR and the Bible doesn't mean that it is a cliché. Almost every story that I can think of is exactly the opposite...person dies and comes back as a monster. Frankenstein, Pet Sematary, etc etc. Add GoT to that list. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CameBackWrongShe's Gage Creed, but with more focused bloodlust.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 15:30:29 GMT
So you agree then that she's the perfect deconstruction of the "good guy comes back to life all amazing" trope? It's not a trope. Just because it happened in LotR and the Bible doesn't mean that it is a cliché. Almost every story that I can think of is exactly the opposite...person dies and comes back as a monster. Frankenstein, Pet Sematary, etc etc. Add GoT to that list. She's Gage Creed, but with more focused bloodlust. It is a trope. And GRRM has made it clear that he wanted to do something different. I don't have a quote for this, but iirc he has discussed what happens with Gandalf so I think it's safe to say that was his direct inspiration. The opposite may be a trope as well, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Lady Stoneheart is a pretty perfect deconstruction of the trope he set out to deconstruct.
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Post by MarcusAntonius on Jun 14, 2015 15:31:09 GMT
I wouldn't say Stoneheart doesn't have any humanity left tbh, she's actively searching for her daughters and started a orphanage of sorts at the inn of the crossroads, plus her trials>>> Berics trials
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Post by freypies on Jun 14, 2015 15:31:55 GMT
It's not a trope. Just because it happened in LotR and the Bible doesn't mean that it is a cliché. Almost every story that I can think of is exactly the opposite...person dies and comes back as a monster. Frankenstein, Pet Sematary, etc etc. Add GoT to that list. She's Gage Creed, but with more focused bloodlust. It is a trope. And GRRM has made it clear that he wanted to do something different. I don't have a quote for this, but iirc he has discussed what happens with Gandalf so I think it's safe to say that was his direct inspiration. The opposite may be a trope as well, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Lady Stoneheart is a pretty perfect deconstruction of the trope he set out to deconstruct. Just because something is different doesn't make it brilliant though. I feel that Martin often does things mainly to shock audiences and to be unique without thinking far ahead about whether it's actually good for the story.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2015 15:32:56 GMT
It is a trope. And GRRM has made it clear that he wanted to do something different. I don't have a quote for this, but iirc he has discussed what happens with Gandalf so I think it's safe to say that was his direct inspiration. The opposite may be a trope as well, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Lady Stoneheart is a pretty perfect deconstruction of the trope he set out to deconstruct. Just because something is different doesn't make it brilliant though. I feel that Martin often does things mainly to shock audiences and to be unique without thinking far ahead about whether it's actually good for the story. Plenty disagree.
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Post by MarcusAntonius on Jun 14, 2015 15:34:06 GMT
Plus I always laugh when people say that she won't be important to the story like Martin included her for no reason and all that set up to her making a huge impact in the Brienne/Jaime storyline was just pointless, righttttt....
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