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Post by lordcarson on Nov 15, 2017 3:14:54 GMT
finally finished
steve is best dad
i fucking cried at dustin's ending WE'VE ALL BEEN THERE BUDDY
i'm glad him offering nancy the extra pizza at the start of season 1 has come full circle
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Post by Father of Dragons on Nov 17, 2017 1:17:03 GMT
I watched 17 episodes in like 5 days. This is a record for me. What a fuckin great show
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Post by Father of Dragons on Nov 17, 2017 11:30:43 GMT
The main draw for me watching this was finding out Sean Astin was in S2. But when I got through the first few episodes I was hooked anyway. This will be a big mishmash/ramble of stuff from S1 and S2 so it's all under spoilers. The cast of this show is just superb. Winona Ryder and David Harbour I especially enjoyed. Criminal that Ryder didn't win for her performance. Mike was great in the first season - probably the best actor of the four - and it's a shame he kinda got pushed to the background in the second. I didn't really think there was much to Lucas or Dustin in S1, but I'm glad they got bucketloads more time in S2. And Max was a great addition as well - bit of a shame her brother basically amounted to nothing. Will's actor should get an award for playing the unluckiest boy ever. I really appreciated that they kept him as the focus of S2. In - ahem - other shows if there was a character who goes through a traumatic experience, by the next season (or next episode) they'd be back to normal. I'm glad that wasn't the case here, because that would've potentially wasted a really great actor. I'm so happy with the direction they took Steve in the second season. I liked him ever since he stood up to his two "friends" in the first season, but he became even more likeable through his scenes with the kids (especially Dustin). And I loved that line: "He's insane" "He's awesome"DAMN RIGHT! I was waiting for him to bash Billy's head in with the bat, but no such luck unfortunately. Maybe if I start a Barb-style "BatForBilly" movement the writers will take that on board for the next season? But honestly, for the second season, while I liked the overarching horror story with Will and the dogs (etc), there were a few subplots that I didn't particularly enjoy. I feel like, with Nancy and Jonathan especially, the writers were really influenced by what fans said of the first season. This whole "JusticeForBarb" thing (which I don't understand at all ) being Nancy's motivator - I'm fine with that. But going from that to breaking up with Steve (in like 2 episodes) and realising her feelings for Jonathan feels like they just went back on how they left it after S1 after listening to some fan's responses. As for Sean Astin, he gave a great performance (embracing his inner Patton Oswalt) and I loved his character, but I'm pissed that he died. Not only was it incredibly predictable and kinda tropey from the moment he volunteered, but it feels like he was just introduced to be killed off. There's not much else to him. BUT "Remember: Bob Newby, superhero" - that line got me. That and Will's drawing at the end Then there's Eleven's story. First off, it feels pretty weak that all she had to do to get out of the Upside Down at the beginning was basically just walk out. I know that they hinted at her survival towards the end of the season, but the way she got out just seems pretty easy. And then there's that weird episode in Chicago that really shouldn't have been its own episode. Could've just cut out some of the unnecessary side characters and fit it in with the rest of the season. But that said, I really enjoyed the rest of her story in S2. Her scenes with Hopper, her mother, and Mike are so good they more than make up for any problems I had otherwise. Also: subtext of the ending is that if you don't find true love at the age of 13, or otherwise have a Nancy, what the fuck are you doing with your life? The ending felt a little dragged out, but that's a nitpick - it was quite sweet. Although it does feel more like a series finale rather than a season finale. I wonder how they're going to get a third and fourth season out of this? Just as long as they stop torturing poor Will. He's been through enough.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Nov 17, 2017 12:22:39 GMT
I never realised how tiny Winona is till she stood beside Harbour... I liked the season overall though I felt it was a bit less bingeable than season one. With episode 7, I think the content of the episode was important in terms of Eleven’s character development and I quite liked the contrast of her and Kali - that could easily have been El if she had fallen in with someone other than mike, Dustin and Lucas. My issue though is it felt jarring in its placement, especially spending the whole episode there. Imo they should have had El leave Hopper’s cabin earlier and spread Chicago over two or three episodes. Roughly speaking it would go 1) El arrives, introduces herself, Kali teaches her to tap into her anger, El pulls the train. 2) Kali And E, take the gang to kill the bad man. El can’t go through with it. The gang flees. 3) Return to the hideout. Kali And El talk, police arrive, El decides to return to Hawkins. I just feel it’s less jarring if it’s split across a few episodes like that, and doesn’t give a long wait cliffhanger of 6 and aftermath in 8. Ymmv though. Other random thoughts: The actor portraying Will had a difficult job and really killed it in his tough scenes. Props to him. Joyce, Mike, Nancy and Jonathan sadly took a back seat this season, which is a bit of a shame given how interesting their characters are and how good the actors are (especially Winona and Finn). Really loved Mike ranting at Hopper for hiding Eleven though. So is the Evil Doctor from S1 actually alive then?
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Post by Father of Dragons on Nov 17, 2017 12:40:36 GMT
I never realised how tiny Winona is till she stood beside Harbour... I liked the season overall though I felt it was a bit less bingeable than season one. With episode 7, I think the content of the episode was important in terms of Eleven’s character development and I quite liked the contrast of her and Kali - that could easily have been El if she had fallen in with someone other than mike, Dustin and Lucas. My issue though is it felt jarring in its placement, especially spending the whole episode there. Imo they should have had El leave Hopper’s cabin earlier and spread Chicago over two or three episodes. Roughly speaking it would go 1) El arrives, introduces herself, Kali teaches her to tap into her anger, El pulls the train. 2) Kali And E, take the gang to kill the bad man. El can’t go through with it. The gang flees. 3) Return to the hideout. Kali And El talk, police arrive, El decides to return to Hawkins. I just feel it’s less jarring if it’s split across a few episodes like that, and doesn’t give a long wait cliffhanger of 6 and aftermath in 8. Ymmv though. Other random thoughts: The actor portraying Will had a difficult job and really killed it in his tough scenes. Props to him. Joyce, Mike, Nancy and Jonathan sadly took a back seat this season, which is a bit of a shame given how interesting their characters are and how good the actors are (especially Winona and Finn). Really loved Mike ranting at Hopper for hiding Eleven though. So is the Evil Doctor from S1 actually alive then?Well he got mauled by a demogorgon so if he can survive then so should Bob! #JusticeForBob
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Post by DaveyJoe on Nov 20, 2017 2:50:37 GMT
Watched 4-7 last night. I love this show. Bob is my new favorite character this season. Sean Astin is so good in that role. Going to finish the season tonight.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Nov 20, 2017 3:45:47 GMT
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Post by DaveyJoe on Nov 20, 2017 4:49:34 GMT
I'm not crying, you're crying.
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Post by Basil on Nov 20, 2017 8:26:06 GMT
I get some of the criticism at Season 2, but I honestly loved everything about it. I even enjoyed episode 7 (and I'm glad they were done with that storyline in one episode, otherwise I might have gotten frustrated with it if they had constantly cut back to Chicago, and away from the main action).
This was one of my favourite seasons of any TV show.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Nov 20, 2017 11:22:27 GMT
In hindsight after re-reading my review, I realised I was probably more on the negative, nitpicky side. I just want to be clear that I still really loved it. Had I the choice to pick between either season of ST and the last 3 seasons of GoT (because I can't really remember further back than that), I'd watch ST in a heartbeat. I mean I finished on Thursday and it's all I've been thinking about since I want MORE
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Post by kingeomer on Dec 3, 2017 14:03:34 GMT
In hindsight after re-reading my review, I realised I was probably more on the negative, nitpicky side. I just want to be clear that I still really loved it. Had I the choice to pick between either season of ST and the last 3 seasons of GoT (because I can't really remember further back than that), I'd watch ST in a heartbeat. I mean I finished on Thursday and it's all I've been thinking about since I want MORE I have to go back and read the thread but I finally finished last night. I really enjoyed season 2. It did have some minor mis-steps (Billy, for example)...but overall it was very good especially for a show that has a lot of hype around it after an out of nowhere season 1. Count me as another one who found that Nancy and Dustin final scene absolutely sweet. I kind of love how the show had Steve (who dropped Dustin off at the dance) play a father-esque role for him (since I think there is no Dad in the picture for him) and Nancy to play a mother/friend like a role for him in the end. I'm not surprised at the Nancy and Steve relationship going up in flames over post Barb traumatic stress. When Steve said, "I might have been a bad boyfriend but I am one hell of a babysitter," I was like I didn't think he was that bad of a boyfriend. It seemed natural for Nancy and Jonathan to get together and I like how maturely it was handled by Steve, who knew she doesn't feel the same about him as he does about her. Nice parallel with Dustin/Max/Lucas. Dustin being very aware that Max and Lucas have that chemistry and she doesn't with him. Noah Schaap (hope I spelled his name right) did a terrific job this season and hands down was the best actor on this show. I loved, loved the whole relationship with Eleven and Hopper. I LOVED HIS APOLOGY TO HER AT END...I was fist bumping him in my head the whole way through. That's how you parent folks, admit you screwed up and move forward. Joyce Byers continues to prove that she is the best parent on this show next to Hopper and Steve. It frustrates me at how uncurious Lucas, Dustin and mike/Nancy's parents are portrayed. Jonathan proves to be the best brother in the world. Steve, I got Mike, go with Jonathan, Nancy you belong there. Nancy-okay. Bob Newby, superhero, I cried. Sean Astin played a great role. I wish Billy got eaten by the demo dogs instead. In case you didn't realize, I HATE BILLY. No amount of "Dad is a dick" is going to make me feel sorry for Billy since he most likely abuses Max and singled out Steve to basically torment. Sorry, that doesn't pardon you from being an asshole dude. I did think that he and Mrs. Wheeler had way too much chemistry that made me uncomfortable. I wish they didn't have Eleven basically dis Max either. She should have realized by the way Mike greeted her and the way Max introduced herself, there is no competition there. I'd like to see Eleven have a female friend. I didn't mind the lost sister episode, we get some much needed Eleven backstory and we know others are out there, besides Kali (who is 8)...so it's good opening to introduce more. Show was picked up for season 3 and obviously more nonsense is brewing in the upside down, probably centered over Hawkins Middle School. I say for season 3: ditch Billy (send him off to the Marines or some shit, I don't care. Someone like him should want to leave), have Steve work with his father (as noted in the first episode) and be involved in the lives of Will/Max/Dustin/Lucas/Mike/Eleven because it's obvious Joe Keery works well with the kids and they work well with him. Continue Hopper/Eleven father/daughter duo. Have Max and Eleven develop a friendship. Mike makes good on his promise to honor Bob Newby with the AV club. Will actually has a good day? Meeting more like Eleven. If they are going there with Joyce/Hopper romance, develop it slowly. I can't even say about Nancy/Jonathan because Charlie Heaton was sent back to the UK when US customs discovered coke residue in his suitcase. I don't know if that will impact his future on the show. If it does, send Jonathan to a photography school out of state, Nancy and Steve develop a friendship while she and Jonathan date off screen.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 3, 2017 17:19:34 GMT
Since I just started rewatching: Steve does have a mum and dad - they were mentioned as being out of town when he had that party in season 1. Seems the only parents who are allowed to have a decent amount of screentime are Joyce and Mrs Wheeler. But season 2 gave us two great dads in the form of Steve and Hopper so they're getting there!
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Post by DaveyJoe on Dec 3, 2017 17:22:51 GMT
I actually liked Billy as a character. He's playing a similar role that Steve did in season one, major douche antagonist to the kids with a hint of depth teased at the end of the season. The fact that they showed how abusive his father is hints that the show doesn't want to have two dimensional villains. I wouldn't be surprised if Billy gets some kind of redemption arc like Steve did in season two.
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Post by Basil on Dec 3, 2017 17:57:53 GMT
I really hated Billy. Admittedly, I didn't love Steve at first either (and now he's like my favourite character, it's crazy ), but Steve was just kind of douchey in the first season, he was never as ridiculously antagonistic and abusive as Billy. Perhaps they'll do something interesting with the character in the third season, so I'll try to keep an open mind, but there was nothing I liked about Billy in season 2. He was just super annoying and I sighed in frustration every time they gave him screentime. He is easily my least favourite aspect of the entire show so far. I really loved Max though. I was kind of sceptical at first, but she grew on me fast and at the end of the season, I loved her just as much as the rest of the party.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Dec 3, 2017 18:08:27 GMT
I think most of my tension and conflict in the non-paranormal aspect of season 2 came from Billy. So for that reason I think Billy was a really effective character.
I have strong feelings about the anti-bullying movement going on in social media. The thing about bullying is that it's a part of the cycle of abuse. I think it's kind of unfair that we demonize these kids for acting out in ways that are essentially attempts by underdeveloped minds to process abuse from their guardians. It's obviously wrong to bully others, but our current approach is to isolate these kids even further, when they are also victims.
I think that's why Billy's story struck a chord with me. His behavior towards Max was over-the-top and I was so relieved when they showed how abusive his father was towards him. He was in danger of being quite two-dimensional. Even after acting like a prick all season I was really uncomfortable with the scene between him and his father.
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Post by stoneheartsrevenge on Dec 4, 2017 0:16:03 GMT
Season 3 need more Joyce/El moments together because duck me they are so great together! I thought Billy was just such an unnecessary and lazy tack on to this season if I’m honest. They had him menacingly lurking in the background for much of the season with little to no pay off and capped it with the incredibly unimaginative explanation of well he has an abusive upbringing. I would feel differently were this a show focused on Billy but it’s not, and I don’t feel this season did anything to warrant the character’s existence. One thing I did appreciate though, considering this is set in the 80s, was the racist attitude of Billy towards Lucas. Thought something on Lucas’ race was much needed here
edit: appreciate in the sense I think it was needed to make things feel more real, not appreciate because it’s a good thing or whatever
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Post by kingeomer on Dec 4, 2017 13:23:06 GMT
I really hated Billy. Admittedly, I didn't love Steve at first either (and now he's like my favourite character, it's crazy ), but Steve was just kind of douchey in the first season, he was never as ridiculously antagonistic and abusive as Billy. Perhaps they'll do something interesting with the character in the third season, so I'll try to keep an open mind, but there was nothing I liked about Billy in season 2. He was just super annoying and I sighed in frustration every time they gave him screentime. He is easily my least favourite aspect of the entire show so far. I really loved Max though. I was kind of sceptical at first, but she grew on me fast and at the end of the season, I loved her just as much as the rest of the party. I really liked Max too. Knowing that Billy is abused by his father and he in turns abuses Max just takes this to a story line that the show cannot give proper justice to. It's simple enough to have Steve (season 1) as the most popular guy in school, lash out when he felt like his status was threatened-what he wrote about Nancy was inexcusable but then show him be humbled, learn from his mistakes and by the end actually be a decent guy--and that was by the end of season 1. Billy, for the most part, didn't feel like he fit in with the show at all. His antagonism of Steve came out of nowhere and seemed stupid (and under developed at that). Steve was an easier case to build up and show the good side of, Billy's presumed redemption should not and cannot be that simple. He's obviously being abused-that doesn't stop overnight. I'll keep an open mind for season 3 but Billy was the worst part of the show for me. I said to my husband, I think it would have been interesting if we could have seen more of Steve, Nancy, Jonathan and Billy in high school and Billy came to town as the crack pot conspiracy theorist who Nancy and Jonathan went to and released the tapes. And once Max learns what she learns, have her say, "my brother might be RIGHT about all of this????"
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Post by DaveyJoe on Dec 4, 2017 16:12:50 GMT
I'm not saying Billy is redeemed, but everybody hated Steve in season one, even though they plant the seed for his redemption arc at the end of season one. This is something similar to how they handled Billy this year. I rewatched season one right before this one and I couldn't help but notice the parallels. As for why Billy focused on Steve, I think it's because he possibly has feelings for him. If he was dealing with repressed feelings and self-loathing that could help explain his lashing out. I felt some strong homoerotic undertones from Billy toward Steve during the basketball and shower scenes. Billy was both mean and playful towards him at the same time. He's showing off for Steve.
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Post by Father of Dragons on Dec 4, 2017 16:20:16 GMT
I didn't hate Steve in season one - even within the season he's doing good stuff by the end. Basically after his fight with Jonathan is when his redemption begins. Fuck Tommy and Carol though. Also did US schools in the 80s really make their students play basketball with no shirt? That was just bizarre.
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Post by DaveyJoe on Dec 4, 2017 16:21:43 GMT
I didn't hate Steve in season one - even within the season he's doing good stuff by the end. Basically after his fight with Jonathan is when his redemption begins. Fuck Tommy and Carol though. Also did US schools in the 80s really make their students play basketball with no shirt? That was just bizarre. Don't have to pay for two uniforms if you play skins vs. shirts:
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